Gaijin to remove/uptier 2S38 Premium vehicle


Gaijin to remove/uptier 2S38 Premium vehicle
The Issue
With the recent "Fire and Ice" update, Gaijin has released a new premium vehicle into the game "War Thunder" the 2S38. This vehicle, which is in Rank 6 of the Russian tech tree, is essentially the most overpowered vehicle to be introduced into the game since the Ka-50 (ironically another Russian premium).
This vehicle should not be in game in it's current state for several reasons.
- This vehicle has not been field tested, and is only a prototype. Sure there have been previous prototype vehicles that had been added, such as the HSTV-L or the XM-8, this is the first time a vehicle which is currently under development has been added. This is the equivalent of adding the Abrams X into the game, and calling it a viable vehicle
- The weaponry on the vehicle is too strong. A 57mm autocannon with a fire rate of once every 0.5 seconds with 200mm+ of penetration is way too overpowered, even for top tier. The HSTV-L, which is at 10.7, has a reload rate of 1.5 seconds, three times the length for the 2s38, and with only a minor penetration increase at a full br lower. The main cannon can take out any Leopard 1 tank with one shot (tested in test drive) and a Abrams frontally from ~700 meters (again from test drive). Previously, vehicles like the BMP-2M could only eliminate tanks from the front using their ATGMs or very minute weak spots, but in the case of the 2S38 it can use it's main gun to quickly kill MBTs from the front at significant distances.
- The modules available for the vehicles are also too good for it's battle rating. It has generation 2/3 thermals for both commander and gunner, laser warning receiver, and an IRST auto tracking feature which gives the gun a lead indicator, similar to an SPAA. This means that the 2S38 has a much better first shoot capability than any other vehicle in the game, and since it has a tremendous amount of penetration, this can lead to engagements finishing before the enemy had a chance to even recognize the threat. The IRST auto track feature combined with the HE-VT can be more useful than a traditional SPAA. For instance, the M247, a BR 9.3 SPAA in the USA tech tree lacks many features such as thermals, IRST tracking compared to the 2S38, not to mention the lack of a means to go offensive.
Possible solutions to make this vehicle slightly more balanced:
- Remove the HE-VT round from the vehicle. This will significantly reduce the performance of the vehicle as an SPAA, and can give actual SPAAs to have a chance at their roles. The HE-VT round also doesn't even exist in real life.
- Uptier it significantly to 11.0+. This vehicle is essentially a less-armored HSTV-L with higher a higher fire rate and a much better fire control system. Moving this up to Rank 7 and make it face top tier will balance the vehicle out as it will be facing more heavily armored targets, not like the soft light tanks that exist in the 9.0-9.7 bracket.
- Increase the Repair Cost. I never knew I wanted this to happen to a vehicle, but it's performance is too good for it to be at such a low repair cost. 4500 silver lions should be increased to around 6000-7000 to compensate for the ridiculous performance this thing has.
With all these points together, the 2S38 can become a somewhat balanced vehicle, although it will never be fully balanced, these updates for the vehicle might make it little bit weaker, and the strong points of the vehicle e.g., the gun will be mitigated to a point where not everything it faces can be shredded.
Overall, it is too good at what it does. For a vehicle to be balanced, it must be good at one specific area. For the Leopard 2A6, it's high penetration and strong turret armor make it great for long distance shooting. The T-72 series has strong turret armor and low profile but a slow reverse speed, also making it ideal for long range engagements. The Type 10 has great firepower and reload, but has comparably weak armor, so quick snap shots benefit it more than extended distances, where it's quick reload might not be a great advantage. However the 2S38 is too good at everything. It is quick, it has great armaments, it has great modules, it can become a SPAA, and if comparing it with light tanks even in 10.0+, it is clear that 2S38 is too good to be placed anywhere in the game right now. Maybe in the future with vehicles with better technology such as the M1A2 SEP V3 or the Leopard 2A7 and a better Challenger, maybe it could be a good contender at top tier. However with the state of the Russian tech tree and Gaijin adding vehicles that are still in development, it is clear that Gaijin is intentionally trying to boost the win rates of the Russian tech tree. Until now, I have used the term "Russian Bias" as a sort of joke, however seeing the previous few updates starting with the introduction of the MiG-23MLD and now whatever this is, it is clear that Gaijin is artificially trying to increase the win rates of the Russian tech tree through whatever means necessary.
If this is the case - I really hope it isn't - then maybe this petition isn't enough to change their minds, but it might help show how utterly overpowered the 2S38 and all the recent Russian vehicles are.
Thank you all,
Spyous.
97
The Issue
With the recent "Fire and Ice" update, Gaijin has released a new premium vehicle into the game "War Thunder" the 2S38. This vehicle, which is in Rank 6 of the Russian tech tree, is essentially the most overpowered vehicle to be introduced into the game since the Ka-50 (ironically another Russian premium).
This vehicle should not be in game in it's current state for several reasons.
- This vehicle has not been field tested, and is only a prototype. Sure there have been previous prototype vehicles that had been added, such as the HSTV-L or the XM-8, this is the first time a vehicle which is currently under development has been added. This is the equivalent of adding the Abrams X into the game, and calling it a viable vehicle
- The weaponry on the vehicle is too strong. A 57mm autocannon with a fire rate of once every 0.5 seconds with 200mm+ of penetration is way too overpowered, even for top tier. The HSTV-L, which is at 10.7, has a reload rate of 1.5 seconds, three times the length for the 2s38, and with only a minor penetration increase at a full br lower. The main cannon can take out any Leopard 1 tank with one shot (tested in test drive) and a Abrams frontally from ~700 meters (again from test drive). Previously, vehicles like the BMP-2M could only eliminate tanks from the front using their ATGMs or very minute weak spots, but in the case of the 2S38 it can use it's main gun to quickly kill MBTs from the front at significant distances.
- The modules available for the vehicles are also too good for it's battle rating. It has generation 2/3 thermals for both commander and gunner, laser warning receiver, and an IRST auto tracking feature which gives the gun a lead indicator, similar to an SPAA. This means that the 2S38 has a much better first shoot capability than any other vehicle in the game, and since it has a tremendous amount of penetration, this can lead to engagements finishing before the enemy had a chance to even recognize the threat. The IRST auto track feature combined with the HE-VT can be more useful than a traditional SPAA. For instance, the M247, a BR 9.3 SPAA in the USA tech tree lacks many features such as thermals, IRST tracking compared to the 2S38, not to mention the lack of a means to go offensive.
Possible solutions to make this vehicle slightly more balanced:
- Remove the HE-VT round from the vehicle. This will significantly reduce the performance of the vehicle as an SPAA, and can give actual SPAAs to have a chance at their roles. The HE-VT round also doesn't even exist in real life.
- Uptier it significantly to 11.0+. This vehicle is essentially a less-armored HSTV-L with higher a higher fire rate and a much better fire control system. Moving this up to Rank 7 and make it face top tier will balance the vehicle out as it will be facing more heavily armored targets, not like the soft light tanks that exist in the 9.0-9.7 bracket.
- Increase the Repair Cost. I never knew I wanted this to happen to a vehicle, but it's performance is too good for it to be at such a low repair cost. 4500 silver lions should be increased to around 6000-7000 to compensate for the ridiculous performance this thing has.
With all these points together, the 2S38 can become a somewhat balanced vehicle, although it will never be fully balanced, these updates for the vehicle might make it little bit weaker, and the strong points of the vehicle e.g., the gun will be mitigated to a point where not everything it faces can be shredded.
Overall, it is too good at what it does. For a vehicle to be balanced, it must be good at one specific area. For the Leopard 2A6, it's high penetration and strong turret armor make it great for long distance shooting. The T-72 series has strong turret armor and low profile but a slow reverse speed, also making it ideal for long range engagements. The Type 10 has great firepower and reload, but has comparably weak armor, so quick snap shots benefit it more than extended distances, where it's quick reload might not be a great advantage. However the 2S38 is too good at everything. It is quick, it has great armaments, it has great modules, it can become a SPAA, and if comparing it with light tanks even in 10.0+, it is clear that 2S38 is too good to be placed anywhere in the game right now. Maybe in the future with vehicles with better technology such as the M1A2 SEP V3 or the Leopard 2A7 and a better Challenger, maybe it could be a good contender at top tier. However with the state of the Russian tech tree and Gaijin adding vehicles that are still in development, it is clear that Gaijin is intentionally trying to boost the win rates of the Russian tech tree. Until now, I have used the term "Russian Bias" as a sort of joke, however seeing the previous few updates starting with the introduction of the MiG-23MLD and now whatever this is, it is clear that Gaijin is artificially trying to increase the win rates of the Russian tech tree through whatever means necessary.
If this is the case - I really hope it isn't - then maybe this petition isn't enough to change their minds, but it might help show how utterly overpowered the 2S38 and all the recent Russian vehicles are.
Thank you all,
Spyous.
97
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Petition created on 27 October 2022