Ebay Will you listen to the sellers who are your customers?
The Issue
To eBay
We the undersigned, members on eBay as sellers (small businesses) who make a living selling at online market places and also some of us employ staff, demand that ebay to keep the site open with out constant crashes, show our products to buyers, reverse the Managed Returns and Defect (DSR) system and also reverse to how it was before, when business was thriving and both buyers and sellers felt safe and listened.
We sellers pay a fee for our listings to be advertised to our buyers, which are often hidden from search results so it’s like conning us of our listing fees, shop subscriptions. As part of the subscription or by being a member is that we sellers get a good customer service, at the moment the average waiting time to speak to someone is 40 -60mins, online chat is hopeless as the CS agent on the other end (call centres) are not well trained and know very little about the policies and it customer service is a shambles.
I have never encountered a business that treats its customers with such contempt, even loathing. Week after week it's a drip… drip…. drip of new charges, rules, punishments and sanctions. You batter your loyal sellers with unasked for and mostly pointless changes in page layouts, tinker with topographical sales visibility, change or cancel selling categories on a whim, ban perfectly good sellers because of the dictats of your ridiculous and hair-raisingly unfair DSR system and, worst of all, attempt to justify this miserable catalogue of pettiness and bullying by insisting it's for our own good.
See below what some TSR sellers have to say:
1. KS
Glitches, new requirements, new rules the lot....it's a mess
You need to go back to go forward and this platform is driving sellers away.
DO NOT opt people into things....you need to offer us the option to opt in if want and my guess is that a large percentage wouldn't want to opt into your new crazy schemes.
If I have a problem with an item it costs me just over a quid to get it back not £2 odd....Look at my record, look at my feedback, look at my history...Am I a problem seller ????....NO I AM NOT; well STOP treating me and other decent folk on here as scum
SORT OUT your site, the past few months has been a nightmare...it's glitch after glitch after glitch....from the site not being secure....the site going down on a regular basis EVEN after this weekly "maintenance" guff...This morning it's log in, log in, log in and I am getting German eBay, Canada EBay, Dutch eBay, Australia eBay and USA eBay every time I load a page up....It's slowing our jobs down and costing US in time.
Your constant interference in OUR business is tiresome, you need to step back and put your trust in us, don't tar us all with the same brush, if you have a rogue seller then deal with them and not the whole in general.
What used to be an easy, straightforward platform has become a bumbling, boring and horrible experience with your constant interference and your constant chasing of the £££ and $$$ in the name of "Improvements".
Employ people who actually sell on here on a regular basis and I don't mean the odd item every month I mean sell REGULARLY and in volume then perhaps they might then see the bigger picture, see these regular glitches, problems and frustrations.
You have completely thrown out the window any goodwill between buyer and seller, it's gone and will never come back and you have the GALL to keep throwing "Good buying experience" at us.... well this isn't that for buyer OR seller
Heaven knows what’s around the corner with you lot but my bet is that it's more chasing the £££ and $$$ and you are thinking up more hair brained schemes to drain us even more in the name of "Improvements" and try to spin it as more "Exciting" news....cut the bull it ain't working.
Take a good hard look at yourselves before it becomes a "Ratners moment", before it's too late and let US run OUR business without all of this interference from you on stupid changes bought in by people who are trying to justify their wage.....You look after and treat YOUR customers well then you will reap rewards....You continue like this then all you will have left is memories and "What it could have been".
But I must thank you for a few things, so credit when it's due....
Thank you for letting me start selling on here 12 years ago, thanks for giving me the opportunity to leave my last workplace which was dreadful in their bullying and practices and their constant monitoring and stress.....Pity this site has now become that bully.
Thank you in a funny kind of way for all of this bullying because it drove me to building my sites to allow me the freedom to trade MY way with the very few restrictions I make and it has reaped rewards....I sell more off my sites that on here now and I am now in the process of building another site, another outlet and it will only be a matter of time before I can cut free from the eBay shackles and trade how it should be.
I know I am only a number with you lot and I know this will fall on deaf ears but it's such a shame to see what was once a great personal site become a huge animal which is out of control an a constant downhill spiral when it comes to trying to run our business but remember this eBay....Don't kick us as you are on the way up because when you come crashing down...and you will... we kick a hell of a lot harder.
KS
2. Why your Managed Returns is not going to work:
1. Cost of returns - there are two issues here.
a) Direct costs. You say the returns cost is only the direct cost but the page you refer us to says "We aren’t making a profit from this process – we only cover the costs of processing the return". That implies (quite strongly) that eBay is covering its costs for administering Managed Returns - that is very different from charging direct costs. Can you please confirm that every penny paid to eBay for a Managed Return is passed to the shipping companies, in every case and to every company. This is an absolute must happen item, without that confirmation every business seller and eBay is open to prosecution by Trading Standards.
b) Actual charges. If I list an item without weights and dimensions what will eBay do with a return? My items are not in any catalogue (I am the manufacturer and/or UK distributor and I do not publish them). The table in the help pages says that items with unknown weights the cost will be £5.96 or £7.57. In your post on the thread you say that where the weight is unknown the Managed Return will not be progressed and the buyer will be directed to the seller. Can you confirm if charges are as per the help pages or as per your thread update please? If you need everyone to add weights to avoid a total disaster in Managed Returns charging it will be best to tell them now - not after the disaster has occurred.
2. Restricted Items. Prior to Managed Returns I controlled how items were shipped back to me. I know what can be shipped, how and by whom. EBay has little or no knowledge in that area (primarily as it doesn't know what my products contain). Previously I took the responsibility for the return, now it would be the responsibility of my customer (the buyer) - that is not, I'm sure you will agree, an enhanced customer experience. Please be aware that many people on eBay sell lithium batteries, they are banned from aircraft unless packed and shipped in a very specific way. The reason they are banned is because they can explode and cause aircraft to crash. Royal Mail makes hundreds of aircraft journeys every day. Whilst the probability is small this has the potential to be a disaster - if Royal Mail discovers a lithium batter they send it for disposal and no compensation is paid. eBay will be the contracted customer (as they will pay for the service) and so eBay will be liable - can you confirm that eBay's risk managers have accepted that risk and I don't need to worry about my customers, the buyers, being dragged through the courts.
3. Compensation. I sell some quite expensive items (they are not currently listed, my shop is almost empty). Losing one of those expensive items could amount to a £400 loss - in retail terms that means I need to make another £3,000 of sales just to get back to where I was before the loss. Prior to Managed Returns I controlled the return so I could specify the correct shipping and insurance (and arrange it and pay for it if necessary) - my risks were covered. Managed Returns makes no effort to cover that risk, a nebulous statement about calling customer services so an investigation can happed does not cover risk nor does it give me any confidence. There needs to be an option to upgrade the insurance for the return (which the sellers will be happy to pay for I'm sure).
4. VAT Receipts. EBay wants me to call Royal Mail (or Collect + or Parcel Force) and ask them to get an eBay invoice, remove all reference to eBay, falsify it with my company details and then send it to me. Then eBay suggests I submit a fraudulent VAT return. Honestly, you couldn't make this one up. Well obviously someone did but you know what I mean. The seller is paying eBay; eBay has to provide the VAT invoice.
5. Managed Returns is an agency agreement - I am employing eBay as my shipping agent. Agency agreements are specifically excluded in the user agreement (for eBay's protection). Do you accept that as my agent eBay will be equally liable for any claim brought by the shipping companies due to a Managed Returns problem?
I have been telling eBay staff about these problems since Managed Returns was first announced and not one person from eBay has even acknowledged the problems exist. I'm not making these things up, they are plain as day in eBay's documentation.
The solutions aren't necessarily particularly difficult but they can't come until there's acceptance of a problem. I don't want my eBay shop on holiday, I want it selling my products and earning me money but Managed Returns makes the risks of selling here way too high.
It is of course up to you what you do with this. I'm more than happy to work with you to sort it out or you can just delete this, carry on regardless and continue to hope that nothing goes terribly wrong. I don't know who's in charge of Managed Returns but that person is paid to put a working system in to production. That hasn't happened and that's a shame; continuing to ignore the warnings and advice is careless at best.
The Issue
To eBay
We the undersigned, members on eBay as sellers (small businesses) who make a living selling at online market places and also some of us employ staff, demand that ebay to keep the site open with out constant crashes, show our products to buyers, reverse the Managed Returns and Defect (DSR) system and also reverse to how it was before, when business was thriving and both buyers and sellers felt safe and listened.
We sellers pay a fee for our listings to be advertised to our buyers, which are often hidden from search results so it’s like conning us of our listing fees, shop subscriptions. As part of the subscription or by being a member is that we sellers get a good customer service, at the moment the average waiting time to speak to someone is 40 -60mins, online chat is hopeless as the CS agent on the other end (call centres) are not well trained and know very little about the policies and it customer service is a shambles.
I have never encountered a business that treats its customers with such contempt, even loathing. Week after week it's a drip… drip…. drip of new charges, rules, punishments and sanctions. You batter your loyal sellers with unasked for and mostly pointless changes in page layouts, tinker with topographical sales visibility, change or cancel selling categories on a whim, ban perfectly good sellers because of the dictats of your ridiculous and hair-raisingly unfair DSR system and, worst of all, attempt to justify this miserable catalogue of pettiness and bullying by insisting it's for our own good.
See below what some TSR sellers have to say:
1. KS
Glitches, new requirements, new rules the lot....it's a mess
You need to go back to go forward and this platform is driving sellers away.
DO NOT opt people into things....you need to offer us the option to opt in if want and my guess is that a large percentage wouldn't want to opt into your new crazy schemes.
If I have a problem with an item it costs me just over a quid to get it back not £2 odd....Look at my record, look at my feedback, look at my history...Am I a problem seller ????....NO I AM NOT; well STOP treating me and other decent folk on here as scum
SORT OUT your site, the past few months has been a nightmare...it's glitch after glitch after glitch....from the site not being secure....the site going down on a regular basis EVEN after this weekly "maintenance" guff...This morning it's log in, log in, log in and I am getting German eBay, Canada EBay, Dutch eBay, Australia eBay and USA eBay every time I load a page up....It's slowing our jobs down and costing US in time.
Your constant interference in OUR business is tiresome, you need to step back and put your trust in us, don't tar us all with the same brush, if you have a rogue seller then deal with them and not the whole in general.
What used to be an easy, straightforward platform has become a bumbling, boring and horrible experience with your constant interference and your constant chasing of the £££ and $$$ in the name of "Improvements".
Employ people who actually sell on here on a regular basis and I don't mean the odd item every month I mean sell REGULARLY and in volume then perhaps they might then see the bigger picture, see these regular glitches, problems and frustrations.
You have completely thrown out the window any goodwill between buyer and seller, it's gone and will never come back and you have the GALL to keep throwing "Good buying experience" at us.... well this isn't that for buyer OR seller
Heaven knows what’s around the corner with you lot but my bet is that it's more chasing the £££ and $$$ and you are thinking up more hair brained schemes to drain us even more in the name of "Improvements" and try to spin it as more "Exciting" news....cut the bull it ain't working.
Take a good hard look at yourselves before it becomes a "Ratners moment", before it's too late and let US run OUR business without all of this interference from you on stupid changes bought in by people who are trying to justify their wage.....You look after and treat YOUR customers well then you will reap rewards....You continue like this then all you will have left is memories and "What it could have been".
But I must thank you for a few things, so credit when it's due....
Thank you for letting me start selling on here 12 years ago, thanks for giving me the opportunity to leave my last workplace which was dreadful in their bullying and practices and their constant monitoring and stress.....Pity this site has now become that bully.
Thank you in a funny kind of way for all of this bullying because it drove me to building my sites to allow me the freedom to trade MY way with the very few restrictions I make and it has reaped rewards....I sell more off my sites that on here now and I am now in the process of building another site, another outlet and it will only be a matter of time before I can cut free from the eBay shackles and trade how it should be.
I know I am only a number with you lot and I know this will fall on deaf ears but it's such a shame to see what was once a great personal site become a huge animal which is out of control an a constant downhill spiral when it comes to trying to run our business but remember this eBay....Don't kick us as you are on the way up because when you come crashing down...and you will... we kick a hell of a lot harder.
KS
2. Why your Managed Returns is not going to work:
1. Cost of returns - there are two issues here.
a) Direct costs. You say the returns cost is only the direct cost but the page you refer us to says "We aren’t making a profit from this process – we only cover the costs of processing the return". That implies (quite strongly) that eBay is covering its costs for administering Managed Returns - that is very different from charging direct costs. Can you please confirm that every penny paid to eBay for a Managed Return is passed to the shipping companies, in every case and to every company. This is an absolute must happen item, without that confirmation every business seller and eBay is open to prosecution by Trading Standards.
b) Actual charges. If I list an item without weights and dimensions what will eBay do with a return? My items are not in any catalogue (I am the manufacturer and/or UK distributor and I do not publish them). The table in the help pages says that items with unknown weights the cost will be £5.96 or £7.57. In your post on the thread you say that where the weight is unknown the Managed Return will not be progressed and the buyer will be directed to the seller. Can you confirm if charges are as per the help pages or as per your thread update please? If you need everyone to add weights to avoid a total disaster in Managed Returns charging it will be best to tell them now - not after the disaster has occurred.
2. Restricted Items. Prior to Managed Returns I controlled how items were shipped back to me. I know what can be shipped, how and by whom. EBay has little or no knowledge in that area (primarily as it doesn't know what my products contain). Previously I took the responsibility for the return, now it would be the responsibility of my customer (the buyer) - that is not, I'm sure you will agree, an enhanced customer experience. Please be aware that many people on eBay sell lithium batteries, they are banned from aircraft unless packed and shipped in a very specific way. The reason they are banned is because they can explode and cause aircraft to crash. Royal Mail makes hundreds of aircraft journeys every day. Whilst the probability is small this has the potential to be a disaster - if Royal Mail discovers a lithium batter they send it for disposal and no compensation is paid. eBay will be the contracted customer (as they will pay for the service) and so eBay will be liable - can you confirm that eBay's risk managers have accepted that risk and I don't need to worry about my customers, the buyers, being dragged through the courts.
3. Compensation. I sell some quite expensive items (they are not currently listed, my shop is almost empty). Losing one of those expensive items could amount to a £400 loss - in retail terms that means I need to make another £3,000 of sales just to get back to where I was before the loss. Prior to Managed Returns I controlled the return so I could specify the correct shipping and insurance (and arrange it and pay for it if necessary) - my risks were covered. Managed Returns makes no effort to cover that risk, a nebulous statement about calling customer services so an investigation can happed does not cover risk nor does it give me any confidence. There needs to be an option to upgrade the insurance for the return (which the sellers will be happy to pay for I'm sure).
4. VAT Receipts. EBay wants me to call Royal Mail (or Collect + or Parcel Force) and ask them to get an eBay invoice, remove all reference to eBay, falsify it with my company details and then send it to me. Then eBay suggests I submit a fraudulent VAT return. Honestly, you couldn't make this one up. Well obviously someone did but you know what I mean. The seller is paying eBay; eBay has to provide the VAT invoice.
5. Managed Returns is an agency agreement - I am employing eBay as my shipping agent. Agency agreements are specifically excluded in the user agreement (for eBay's protection). Do you accept that as my agent eBay will be equally liable for any claim brought by the shipping companies due to a Managed Returns problem?
I have been telling eBay staff about these problems since Managed Returns was first announced and not one person from eBay has even acknowledged the problems exist. I'm not making these things up, they are plain as day in eBay's documentation.
The solutions aren't necessarily particularly difficult but they can't come until there's acceptance of a problem. I don't want my eBay shop on holiday, I want it selling my products and earning me money but Managed Returns makes the risks of selling here way too high.
It is of course up to you what you do with this. I'm more than happy to work with you to sort it out or you can just delete this, carry on regardless and continue to hope that nothing goes terribly wrong. I don't know who's in charge of Managed Returns but that person is paid to put a working system in to production. That hasn't happened and that's a shame; continuing to ignore the warnings and advice is careless at best.
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Petition created on 4 October 2014