Remove CS 421 with Gunter from the Core UIUC CS Curriculum


Remove CS 421 with Gunter from the Core UIUC CS Curriculum
The Issue
For starters, let me emphasize the importance of this change by stating that every CS and CS + X major at UIUC must take this class at some point before they graduate.
I speak personally only having taken it with Elsa Gunther and with that, I think that a substantial amount of people who have taken this class with her and those who are taking it now would be quick to agree that this is one of the worst taught and instructed CS courses in our curriculum.
Lectures
Arguably the most important part of any class, lectures are meant to be a place where there is genuine instruction about some subject. Where students are at the very least brought in to be engaged by a professor knowledgeable about their class subject and at least somewhat passionate about teaching it. Now, I implore anybody reading this to go and watch one of the lectures from this semester. Here's the lecture from yesterday as of writing this petition:
https://mediaspace.illinois.edu/media/t/1_2tdiwixa/325290842
I want to add that practically nobody attends these in-person lectures in a class of over 400 people. Now, a logical assumption would be that people are simply watching these lectures online, given that there is the option to do so. However, this is not at all the case:

I would say with confidence that at least 70% of the class has stopped trying to learn from her lectures altogether because they are so poor in quality.
Specifically, from what I could find, she has been using these same lecture slides for upwards of 10 years (!!!) and simply regurgitates whatever is written on them to the class. It feels like there is no genuine learning taking place. Watching her trying to write OCAML code in front of the class is like watching paint dry or hearing silverware scratched on ceramic plates. One would think that after so many years of working with this language and teaching it, she would be proficient in it - and yet she would take large chunks of our class time trying to debug her own code which was supposed to be elementary to us. Now, being only a junior and not having a depth of knowledge in the subject of functional programming & compilers, I cannot speak to whether or not she is truly very knowledgeable about the subject. In fact, I'm quite sure that she is, but it is impossible to discern whether or not that is the case because when she's teaching, she seems to have a complete disconnect between what she's reading off the slides and what we as students are actually learning.
Assignments
Now, behind lectures, there is no doubt that assignments in CS classes are the most important part of a class. They are meant to be the ground where students apply what they are taught and gain a fundamental understanding of what the application of these concepts is meant to look like. We are given two categories of assignments, Web Assignments (WAs) and MPs. I cannot say that these assignments are as poor as the quality of the lectures, but I can say that the value derived from doing them is remarkably low, other than the fact that we are to apply their concepts on quizzes in the class. We are thrown into doing MPs with thousands of words of instructions and explanatory guidelines (not an exaggeration, MP6 had 5,152 words of instruction), and given that the lectures are so horrendous, the burden of learning the content is put onto us entirely. It can feel impossible at times especially when there is no emphasis on importance made clear. It just feels like we are writing code for the sake of writing it, not because it is truly difficult, apparently relevant to our industry, or in my case, even interesting.
To make matters worse, I consider it to be a great shame to have a class not change with the tides of time. In an industry of Computer Science, in which growth and change are unrivaled, one would expect that assignments in a class like this are at the very least updated to be more relevant to standards. In CS 421, that is anything but the case. It genuinely blew my mind to find out that the MPs we do in this class are almost entirely unchanged from the same MPs that students were given back in Fall of 2014! That might be hard to believe, but proving this point could not be easier, given that she has not even changed the course website from 10 years ago...
This is our current class website page to find assignments for Spring 2024

And here is the page from Fall 2014

Exams
One positive of this class is that the exams we receive are relatively straightforward. We are prompted with information that has appeared on these MPs and WAs and given 50 minutes to regurgitate them ourselves. I would say that about 60% of the exams are memorization from our MPs, while the other 40% can be left to at least somewhat critical thinking. If students of the class were polled on how they studied, I would say with great confidence that at least half of the class simply memorizes the practice exam and hopes that they're real exam will at least somewhat bear a resemblance. In preparation for the exams, Professor Gunther says that CAs and TAs will not be assisting with the actual practice exams themselves, leaving it up to the students to figure out the solutions. With that, there are extremely helpful people on the forums, one of whom is Ryan Ziegler, who's gone above and beyond to be a light of help to anyone who asks questions in our class. However, instead of shouting him out to the class, or giving him extra credit as some other classes might do (CS 411 for example), she took the time to discredit his help on a post that was praising him.

Conclusion
I strongly believe that the inner workings of programming languages, compilers, and functional programming as a whole are extremely important topics. I have no qualms about the fact that they belong as an integral part of our curriculum. However, the number of issues that exist with the way it currently functions under Elsa Gunther should raise concern to any faculty or staff of the department. It is dreadful, and I say that beyond the existence of my own experience.
Don't take my word for it though, I implore any staff member or student to go and sit through a week of her lectures and assignments and to ask people in the class whether or not the statements here are factual and real.
For more of what students think, read here:
https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/professor/986195
17
The Issue
For starters, let me emphasize the importance of this change by stating that every CS and CS + X major at UIUC must take this class at some point before they graduate.
I speak personally only having taken it with Elsa Gunther and with that, I think that a substantial amount of people who have taken this class with her and those who are taking it now would be quick to agree that this is one of the worst taught and instructed CS courses in our curriculum.
Lectures
Arguably the most important part of any class, lectures are meant to be a place where there is genuine instruction about some subject. Where students are at the very least brought in to be engaged by a professor knowledgeable about their class subject and at least somewhat passionate about teaching it. Now, I implore anybody reading this to go and watch one of the lectures from this semester. Here's the lecture from yesterday as of writing this petition:
https://mediaspace.illinois.edu/media/t/1_2tdiwixa/325290842
I want to add that practically nobody attends these in-person lectures in a class of over 400 people. Now, a logical assumption would be that people are simply watching these lectures online, given that there is the option to do so. However, this is not at all the case:

I would say with confidence that at least 70% of the class has stopped trying to learn from her lectures altogether because they are so poor in quality.
Specifically, from what I could find, she has been using these same lecture slides for upwards of 10 years (!!!) and simply regurgitates whatever is written on them to the class. It feels like there is no genuine learning taking place. Watching her trying to write OCAML code in front of the class is like watching paint dry or hearing silverware scratched on ceramic plates. One would think that after so many years of working with this language and teaching it, she would be proficient in it - and yet she would take large chunks of our class time trying to debug her own code which was supposed to be elementary to us. Now, being only a junior and not having a depth of knowledge in the subject of functional programming & compilers, I cannot speak to whether or not she is truly very knowledgeable about the subject. In fact, I'm quite sure that she is, but it is impossible to discern whether or not that is the case because when she's teaching, she seems to have a complete disconnect between what she's reading off the slides and what we as students are actually learning.
Assignments
Now, behind lectures, there is no doubt that assignments in CS classes are the most important part of a class. They are meant to be the ground where students apply what they are taught and gain a fundamental understanding of what the application of these concepts is meant to look like. We are given two categories of assignments, Web Assignments (WAs) and MPs. I cannot say that these assignments are as poor as the quality of the lectures, but I can say that the value derived from doing them is remarkably low, other than the fact that we are to apply their concepts on quizzes in the class. We are thrown into doing MPs with thousands of words of instructions and explanatory guidelines (not an exaggeration, MP6 had 5,152 words of instruction), and given that the lectures are so horrendous, the burden of learning the content is put onto us entirely. It can feel impossible at times especially when there is no emphasis on importance made clear. It just feels like we are writing code for the sake of writing it, not because it is truly difficult, apparently relevant to our industry, or in my case, even interesting.
To make matters worse, I consider it to be a great shame to have a class not change with the tides of time. In an industry of Computer Science, in which growth and change are unrivaled, one would expect that assignments in a class like this are at the very least updated to be more relevant to standards. In CS 421, that is anything but the case. It genuinely blew my mind to find out that the MPs we do in this class are almost entirely unchanged from the same MPs that students were given back in Fall of 2014! That might be hard to believe, but proving this point could not be easier, given that she has not even changed the course website from 10 years ago...
This is our current class website page to find assignments for Spring 2024

And here is the page from Fall 2014

Exams
One positive of this class is that the exams we receive are relatively straightforward. We are prompted with information that has appeared on these MPs and WAs and given 50 minutes to regurgitate them ourselves. I would say that about 60% of the exams are memorization from our MPs, while the other 40% can be left to at least somewhat critical thinking. If students of the class were polled on how they studied, I would say with great confidence that at least half of the class simply memorizes the practice exam and hopes that they're real exam will at least somewhat bear a resemblance. In preparation for the exams, Professor Gunther says that CAs and TAs will not be assisting with the actual practice exams themselves, leaving it up to the students to figure out the solutions. With that, there are extremely helpful people on the forums, one of whom is Ryan Ziegler, who's gone above and beyond to be a light of help to anyone who asks questions in our class. However, instead of shouting him out to the class, or giving him extra credit as some other classes might do (CS 411 for example), she took the time to discredit his help on a post that was praising him.

Conclusion
I strongly believe that the inner workings of programming languages, compilers, and functional programming as a whole are extremely important topics. I have no qualms about the fact that they belong as an integral part of our curriculum. However, the number of issues that exist with the way it currently functions under Elsa Gunther should raise concern to any faculty or staff of the department. It is dreadful, and I say that beyond the existence of my own experience.
Don't take my word for it though, I implore any staff member or student to go and sit through a week of her lectures and assignments and to ask people in the class whether or not the statements here are factual and real.
For more of what students think, read here:
https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/professor/986195
17
Petition Updates
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Petition created on April 17, 2024