**PLEASE NOTE** Our comments on the other petition's posts and any from their supporters posts are correct at the time of writing - their information may or may not be changed which could impact on the relevance and accuracy of what we post but this is outwith our control - we do not have the capacity to keep checking their posts for changes*
Hi all
Thankyou to everyone supporting us and the people we are fighting for!
We shared some very positive news yesterday - the council update on the matter - but we're not out of the woods yet. Keep reading for more on that!
It's only 8 days until councillors will discuss rules in cemeteries including dog rules. Remember you can have your say. Please see the end of this post for other ways to get involved.
You can email us at: cemeteries4all@yahoo.com
We are still busy working on both our written and spoken deputations so updates may be less but be assured we are still working hard to keep cemetries4all respectful responsible users.
Yesterday we shared the council's (Bereavement Services) update report in relation to dogs in cemeteries, they clearly stated:
"Whilst there are some issues, there is an insufficient evidence base to conclude that it would be
proportionate to further tighten the rules. Further, to enforce a ‘no dog’ rule would require a
significant increase in officer resources."
You can find this update report and related graphs in this document (of you search within the document for 'cemetery' it makes it much easier as it's a long document):
Obviously we are very pleased with this but as we said yesterday we aren't counting our chickens until they are hatched.
Why? Because there is a certain system when making rules on council matters and although the council appear to have given their opinion councillors have not.
Elected councillors on various boards (in this case the Culture and Communities Comittee) decide the rules in relation to many council matters (in this case council cemeteries) but related council services (in this case Bereavement Services) collect relevent statistics, enforces the rules and makes suggestions for rules...they also know their budget and what they can manage to do within their budget. Council services do a lot more than this but in relation to rule setting we understand this is the procedure.
We personally think it would be hard for councillors to go against the evidence of the council and their recommendations, they would have to have extremely good reasons for this, especially since it has become quite a public issue.
However, it is not entirely impossible as we do know some councillors personally want a ban (some don't and some we don't know about) for this reason we're going to keep working as hard as we can to ensure we have done everything we possibly can to prevent a disproportionate ban on dogs in our council cemeteries.
So we're not done yet! But it's looking positive.
Remember there's still time to show your support not to have a ban by writing to your local councillors and writing to councillors on the rule deciding board or even sharing this petition again.
We advocate for respectful, responsible cemetery use by all and education for the minority not following rules. Below are some of our concerns in relation to a ban on dogs (with or without exemptions).
- Mourners who may be disadvantaged by any form of ban on dogs and not able to grieve as is helpful to them.
- The deceased resting in our cemeteries who may have loved dogs in life and like to see them in death
- There are many socially accepted reasons one might visit a cemetery why should somone miss out on this because they have a well behaved dog on lead causing no issues
- Women and vunerable groups state they feel safer with a dog in a cemetery - should be take away their safety net? Remember they may be a mourner
- People with dogs can and do help in cemeteries
- The footfall of dogs may offer cemetery inhabitants and visitors protection from unwanted or illegal behaviour
- The no dogs rule pre covid was not enforced or adhered to in at least 2 cemeteries (all if you believe some council officials) - what would this rule actually to do improve the behaviours of the minority of rule breakers?
- If a ban was brought in but not enforced by the coincil would this lead to individuals self policing cemeteries possibly incorrectly and inappropriately?
- Is it porportionate and just to remove a rule abiding majority for a minority of rule breakers in a minority of cemeteries
- The list of aspects could go on but we feel that is enough to demonstrate how complicated this matter truely is.
As yet we have heard nothing from the other petition re this council evidence and recommendations. We have still not heard the other petiton accept and apologise for misleading people re trial rules and falsely accusing people of breaking rules putting their image online. We have still not heard the other petition apologise to the public and their supporters for withholding information from them. The last we heard they were busy posting about reducing the number of people they suspect of "infiltrating" their private facebook group - interestingly they seem to think it was one person.
To be clear we have never tried to join their group nor have we ever asked anyone to.
We will always aim to be open and honest with you and will quickly apologise and acknowledge when we make mistakes. We also prioritise the issue at hand which is improving behaviours in our council cemeteries in a porportionate and just way; not chasing up people joining a Facebook group. Even if they have used the fabulous image from the 90's "The Usual Suspects" film we personally think with only 8 days to go they would maybe have more important things on their mind. Of course they may have moved to other matters. We certainly hope they are ok and wish them well - we feel it's a little unusual that they have not commented on the council's evidence and are a bit concerned to be honest.
Let's keep cemetries4all responsible, respectful people!
Official current cemetery rules:
https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/33467/cemetery-management-rules
Other ways to get involved and share your view:
Write to your local councillor - List of your local Councillors:
https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=WARD&VW=LIST&PIC=0
Write to committe members who will discuss and decide on cemetery rules - List of who is due to be at the committee meeting including committee members:
https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/mgMeetingAttendance.aspx?ID=7281
Consider giving a written or verbal deputation - Website where further information will be posted in relation to the meetings, we understand around a week before the meeting:
https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=139&MId=7281
Vote on the Scotsman's article where you can place your vote (it is not binding in any way):
https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/why-council-will-vote-on-a-ban-dogs-from-all-edinburgh-cemeteries-4679251?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1jiu0nmOB5KkeddVY_d0oDN6U2gt09cUrdWgBgQNW9Nr0N14p8EnUv3gs_aem_n3NYnWSu9Bpe_wP_x0twLw#disqus-comment-section