Hi all
Many many thanks to all our signers, sharers and donators - you are very much appreciated but our work just got harder.
Remember you can contact us at the address below, we would actually quite like some help to see where we can go from here if anyone if willing to join us. We work and study as well as having canine responsibilities so running this is pretty hard at times, anyone who wanted to help would be much appreciated.
Contact us at: cemeteries4all@yahoo.com
In our recent updates we have been wondering what the other side is doing and why they were still going - the council told us there would be no review or rule change for the present time (great) so we wondered why were they still going?
They have finally answered albeit in updates mixed amongst with a strongly worded update against us. As stated before we always tell the truth that is available to us. Yes, we will ask questions. Yes, we will share thoughts. Yes, we will have hope and share small victories - we were petitioning against the other petition's proposed rule change - the council said they wouldn't change the rule for now - we celebrated and pondered victory as we had got what we petioned for whether it was a result of our work or not. It was still a potential victory and something to be happy about and ease the stress (even for a short time) of those worried about this issue.
We don't lie or deliberately mislead. We also don't try to discredit the other petition by engaging in dirty tactics or accusing them of lying when we disagree with them. We merely share information we have found or as we have said ask questions or ponder out loud.
We have lost loved ones and are fighting for ourselves and others to be able to visit them with a dog without disadvantage (such as somehow proving we should be in a cemetery). We are also fighting for those who may get many valuable gains in terms of mental and physical wellbeing in relation to visiting cemetries whilst with their dog. We want to do this in a dignified manner to honour those we have loved and shall stick with this, we are not going to sully the memories of our lost loved ones by lying, misleading people, making accusations or manipulation against the other petition. Call it old fashioned but we believe in a more gentlemanly way of behaving.
We also do not share the names of anyone including councillors, MSPs or MPs without their prior consent as we do not believe that fair. We have been asking them for information re the rules not checking if we could post their names as we didn't see a reason to. Further, during times when politicians are under threat by people who disagree with their views we take their safety seriously and do not feel it necessary to name individuals we have had contact with. As we have said we do not lie. We can of course ask people if they are ok with us sharing their name, and may do so, but this seems a little unnecessary.
Their update against us:
They have made several recent updates detailing their work. This includes correspondence with councillors and politicians, freedom of information act requests and an application for a Scottish Government petition - this has been granted.
Essentially they are going to continue to try to pressure the council to change rules in Edinburgh cemetries.
The are now petitioning the Scottish Government to change rules in ALL Scottish cemetries.
"PE2087: Pass a law making exercising a dog in a cemetery an offence
Calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to pass a law making exercising a dog in a cemetery an offence punishable by an on the spot fine for infringement."
Goodness know how much this will cost the tax payer in money and we cannot bear to think about how it will affect Scotish citizens and the damage it may cause, we also don't know how the country will realistically be expected to issue on the spot fines for going against the law - maybe it's just us reading that no where has any money for extra staff or extra paperwork etc.
They have not defined what they mean by "exercising" and this is the worrying part.
Is taking your dog for a short stroll in the cemetery because your COPD is really bad today and you are unable to go further exercising? Is taking your dog to a cemetery to pay respects to service people when your dog is your only companion in life exercising? Is it exercising to take your emotional support dog to visit your ancestors graves? When you are experiencing the darkest of times and need an escape from the world and go to the safe quiet environment of a cemetery with your loving canine - is that exercising?
We have recently shared articles with you on how important cemetries can be for people, should they miss out on this because they have a dog with them - if they are responsible, respectful and take care of dog fouling?
Should mourners be singled out and possibly have to prove they are visiting the cemetrey with their dog as they are in mourning? We can't actually believe we are asking that question.
We have already shared that when reviewing the rules almost 3 months ago the council cited 10 complaints in 4 of Edinburghs 43 cemetries. Yes, we are referring to this again as it is official information and there has been no official information on this since so it seems to still be relevent.
The petition for "No dogs" rule with excemptions has themselves recently shared statistics on dog fouling and related fines with numbers being incredibly low in relation to both reported fouling and fines being issued. They question how valid this is and indeed the issue may be worse - it depends on dog fouling being witnessed and reported, it depends on spending money on someone to issue fines (when we have little money to spare). However, these are the official numbers, you cannot legislate on thoughts of numbers.
Are we really going to ban people (with excemptions) from going to cemetries with their dogs for valid reasons which they may benefit greatly from when they act responsibly and respectfully on the basis of a low number dog walkers who cannot follow rules (based on official statistics) - and do this nationwide?
Is this not potentially discrimination? We have previously mentioned somone with Autism and CPTSD who at times visits a cemetrey with their dog as they cannot face the wider world and the cemetery is a safe place for them. Are we really going to take away a place of safety from someone with protected characteristics under discrimination laws?
What about people with an emotional support dog for PTSD? What about people who can't walk far - COPD, arthritis, cancer, general old age (no offence to older people), somone with a broken leg? The cemetery has benches if rest is required whilst also providing a safe, peaceful and beautiful environment street walks cannot. The possibilities of who could potentially be excluded are endless - we need to know whay they mean by "exercising" to know exactly who it wojld apply to.
What is the harm of the above people visiting if they keep their dog on a lead, act responsibly and respectfully and clean up any dog fouling?
In 2024 do we really support such draconian measures?
Should we not first consider other means. Such as the education the council carries out in "problem" cemetries or starting to issue fines or warnings - if we even have the funds for this.
It seems very extreme to us to go from some owners allowing dog fouling and dogs off the lead in 4 local cemetries to a nationwide ban of dogs exercising (whateverthay means) (with excemptions) - what about the responsible, respectful people with their dogs who as discussed in previous posts may vary widely in their valid reasons for visiting cemetries but all potentially benefit greatly.
As stated we don't entirely know what "exercising" means so these very serious concerns may not be anything to worry about - maybe exercising a dog means throwing a ball or going for a run together but until we get answers we will keep aski questions.
Quite frankly we are shocked by the other petition asking for this but also for such a petition being allowed by the Scottish Government.
Just a final point this petition is a counter petition to the petition for "Edinburgh Council to reinstate "No Dogs in Cemeteries" rule that was in place pre-Covid" it is not a counter petition to their new petition to the Scottish Government - to do that we would need to start another petiton and could not use this current petiton.