Hi all

Many many thanks for all your support!

Pretty sure we have what we want in the bag (to keep current rules) but let's keep sharing and signing in case the other petition somehow manages to get governance of cemetries changed (highly unlikely as these are devolved powers and might lead to a whole governance system requiring restructuring) or they somehow get the council to change their mind (again highly unlikely, in our opinion). We don't want to count our chiclens till they're fully hatched.

The more signers we get will not only give us evidence against rule changes for now but also in the future for if the other petition tries (yet) again to get cemetery rules changed and dogs banned (with or without excemptions) - this seems to be a frequent request for them.

Let's keep Edinburgh Council cemetries for all to use - respectfully, responsibly and in keeping with current rules.

If you want to chat or share information in relation to this petition, please contact us at:

cemeteries4all@yahoo.com

On Wednesday 23rd a concerned individual who has a fear of dogs and does not wish them to be allowed in cemetries posted on facebook with concerns re this petition and how dogs being allowed into cemetries may affect them. We were concerned about them but also others like them with similar fears or phobias.

We completely understand this view and would not wish to cause anyone distress and we're sure dogs owners themselves would not want to.

However, we do feel this is a complex issue as others may require their dogs for support.

Please see the conversation below for full details on what was said and our thoughts on why it is a complex issue and things that need to be considered. It was a closed facebook group so we can't share the link.

The concerned party also gave some advice for dog owners re what can help make somone with a fear of dogs feel safer. You can see full details below but this included not letting dogs approach people and not having them on too long a lead.

There was some conversation after these comments but it focused on points already made in these comments or that weren't relevant to the petition - such as people taking dogs to pubs and resteraunts.

Please note comments refer to this petition, we do not know the views of the petition for "No dogs" rule (with excemptions) in relation to people with a fear of dogs.

Concerned person on facebook:

"I will never sign such a petition.  Cemeteries are sacred places for quiet comtemplation.  I am not comfortable around dogs. I deserve to feel safe when I'm sitting or walking in a cemetery not have to leave because I'm frightened.  It is completely disrespectful to have dogs urinating in cemeteries.  There are lots of places in Edinburgh that are suitable for exercising a dog.  Cemeteries are not one of them."

The response from the petition:

"Name retracted for privacy many thanks for your heartfelt response.

The petition has thought about people with a fear or phobia of dogs but as yet haven't had anyone ask about it - to their knowledge, both petitions are shared far and wide and unfortunately it's just not possible to keep a track on all comments.

I'm very sorry to hear you have a fear of dogs, that must be particularly difficult in Edinburgh which has a high dog population and is so dog friendly.

Such fears and phobias are important and the petition would not wish anyone to be caused distress, however, it is quite a complex issue.

It should be acknowledged that some people have fears and phobias which their dogs can help with and that may mean that they take a dog out with them for support - including to a cemetrey. This may be to visit loved ones in a cemetery, or as you yourself have stated, cemetries are for quiet contemplation and somone who has a dog, for instance, for anxiety may find a cemetery a place of safety, solace and contemplation. In the petition updates we highlight the story of a mourner who takes their dog with them as they have PTSD and find their dog a great support. We also highlight one person with autism and CPTSD who at times cannot face the wider world and uses a cemetery for safety and solace. The council themselves found in a consultation on cemetries that solo women and vunerable people felt safer walking their dog in a cemetrey than other places.

The petition therefore feels a balance should be stuck to try and make sure everyone feels safe.

Current rules state that dogs must be on a lead and owners should take care of any dog fouling. The petition agrees with this rule and feels that dog owners who visit cemetries responsibly, respectfully and in keeping with rules should be allowed to use cemetries for reasons discussed in the petition - mourning and a place for mental health and wellbeing (such as quiet conremplation). We feel this will not sully or disrespected the cemetery or it's occupants if use is respectful, responsible etc. As stated by some commenters on the petition some of the inhabitants of the cemetery might have loved dogs in life and appreciate dogs walking near them in their death. In fact, the writer of the petition takes their dog with them to visit a loved one who when alive did this for other relatives and the writer knows they would have wanted a dog to visit them.  

The petiton feels that if dogs are on leads this can provide a safety to some issues relating to fear of dogs as dogs will not be able to approach people. Having a responsible owner (if a dog does want to approach someone) means that the owner will control the dog and not let them approach people, there is a tendency in cemetries not to approach people and we'd expect a responsible dog owner to adhere to this.

As stated we very much appreciate your fear and it is very important not to cause distress to you or others with fears similar to you but others can have fears which dogs can help with so it would be nice if we could achieve a balance.

Do you have any suggestions for dog owners on anything they can do to help you or other people with a fear of dogs?"

Concerned person on facebook:

" Name retracted for privacy yes (re advice for dog owners).  Keep dogs on short leads in public places.  Far too many are on long leads and allowed to approach people who may not welcome that. Don't insist on taking your dog everywhere.  Consider a house with a garden where you have exclusive access. It is only recently that flat dwellers have even considered dog ownership. I am allergic to dogs as well as uncomfortable with them.  Dog owners seem to forget that not everyone likes dogs.  I don't want to eat in places which allow dogs because I think it's unhygienic.  I've observed waiting staff petting animals then without washing their hands continuing to serve food and drink.  I am not afraid of flying.  I had to find another job when so called therapets were introduced to the airport because my workplace became unsafe.  I could say I had 'anxiety' around dogs.  A much over-used word these days.  Dog owners have a huge choice of places to walk without entering cemeteries. My choice to mourn at the grave of a loved one would be removed.  I can no longer use my local library because dogs are allowed and it would trigger my allergy.  Dogs can't read so unless they are genuine assistance dogs  there is no need for them to be in libraries at all."