**PLEASE NOTE** Our comments on the other petition's posts and any from their supporters posts are correct at the time of writing - their information may or may not be changed which could impact on the relevance and accuracy of what we post but this is outwith our control - we do not have the capacity to keep checking their posts for changes
Hi all
Thankyou to everyone supporting us and the people we are fighting for!
The day after tomorrow councillors will meet and discuss rules in cemeteries including dog rules.
Remember it's never too late to have you your say. Please see the end of this post for other ways to get involved.
You can email us at:
cemeteries4all@yahoo.com
Apologies for no update yesterday we were putting the finishing touches to our written deputation which you can find alongside the other petition's deputation on the coincil webpage for the meeting.
Written deputations: https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/b25029/Deputations%2008th-Aug-2024%2010.00%20Culture%20and%20Communities%20Committee.pdf?T=9
Webpage for the meeting: https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=139&MId=7281&Ver=4&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3JvB8rz8-4PKiUf7xDNmywXg9IuDxgAX3kp1Y2zWgARIJQvpx609vhmqg_aem_wDehsS-2BzpQkIhoqL9uRA
We made a distinct effort to try to keep our word count down but in a strange role reversal the other petition has written a lot more than us.
We have to admit, although we found it a little hard to stay with it, on first reading their deputation looked very impressive to us.
On second reading we, however, noticed a distinct lack of empirical evidence - there's plenty of opinions and statements they even have photos of dogs following the rules (which we found a bit baffling till we realised they were yet again referring to trial rules as if they exist, they don't) but no actual statistics of overall behaviour to compare to "bad" behaviour to know if this is a majority or not.
How many dogs were in the cemeteries they observed and how many were on/off lead? How many cemeteries did they observe? Yes, they have stated issues and have some photos but this tells us very little and if looking to see if measures introduced work or not we don't have anything proper to measure this by.
We do, however, want to say we really feel for the people who have written personal stories and we wish you no offence or hurt at all but are unsure if these accounts are really representative of the thousands of people who will have loved ones in our council cemeteries. Yes, you are important and we want to improve behaviours for you and many other mourners or cemetery visitors but not to the detriment of people who have done nothing wrong.
As the council have stated and our own evidence reiterates:
"...the majority of dog owners use cemetery spaces in a respectful manner."
"Whilst there are some issues, there is an insufficient evidence base to conclude that it would be proportionate to further tighten the rules. Further, to enforce a ‘no dog’ rule would require a significant increase in officer resources."
We hope that in a day's time councillors will be able to vote based on actual evidence not emotion or unrepresentative biased data.
We also hope that we have done a good enough job and have represented you our supporters well - please feel free to email but before Thursday if there's any other points you feel need covered.
Apologies if you are not happy with our deputation we tried our hardest.
We advocate for respectful, responsible cemetery use by all and education for the minority not following rules. Below are some of our concerns in relation to a ban on dogs (with or without exemptions).
- Mourners who may be disadvantaged by any form of ban on dogs form of ban on dogs and not able to grieve as is helpful to them.The deceased resting in our cemeteries who may have loved dogs in life and like to see them in death
- There are many socially accepted reasons one might visit a cemetery why should somone miss out on this because they have a well behaved dog on lead causing no issues
- Women and vunerable groups state they feel safer with a dog in a cemetery - should be take away their safety net? Remember they may be a mourner
- People with dogs can and do help in cemeteries
- The footfall of dogs may offer cemetery inhabitants and visitors protection from unwanted or illegal behaviour
- The no dogs rule pre covid was not enforced or adhered to in at least 2 cemeteries (all if you believe some council officials) - what would this rule actually to do improve the behaviours of the minority of rule breakers?
- If a ban was brought in but not enforced by the coincil would this lead to individuals self policing cemeteries possibly incorrectly and inappropriately?
- Is it porportionate and just to remove a rule abiding majority for a minority of rule breakers in a minority of cemeteries
- The list of aspects could go on but we feel that is enough to demonstrate how complicated this matter truely is.
Let's keep cemetries4all responsible, respectful people!
Official current cemetery rules:
https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/33467/cemetery-management-rules
Other ways to get involved and share your view:
Write to your local councillor - List of your local Councillors:
https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=WARD&VW=LIST&PIC=0
Write to committe members who will discuss and decide on cemetery rules - List of who is due to be at the committee meeting including committee members:
https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/mgMeetingAttendance.aspx?ID=7281
Vote on the Scotsman's article where you can place your vote (it is not binding in any way): https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/why-council-will-vote-on-a-ban-dogs-from-all-edinburgh-cemeteries-4679251?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1jiu0nmOB5KkeddVY_d0oDN6U2gt09cUrdWgBgQNW9Nr0N14p8EnUv3gs_aem_n3NYnWSu9Bpe_wP_x0twLw#disqus-comment-section