Hi all
Many thanks again to all our wonderful signers, sharers, donators and defenders helping us keep cemetries4all!
Please keep sharing and getting those all important signatures.
As always you can email us at: cemeteries4all@yahoo.com
For clarity we would like to make it clear to signers our petition is against their council petition not their petition to change the law nation wide although we understand many concerns will be in relation to both petitions.
There's been some interesting and at times passionate discussions on nextdoor and reddit relating to our counter petition to the petition for "Edinburgh Council to reinstate "No Dogs in Cemeteries" rule that was in place pre-Covid" and also discussions in relation to their council petition and their petition for the law: "PE2087: Pass a law making exercising a dog in a cemetery an offence".
We'd like to share some of the supportive or shared views people have in relation to our petition on social media so that you can see what people are concerned about straight from people themselves.
You can see these comments below but we'd like to offer a summary and our thoughts first.
The below comments highlight some people feel issues/behaviours are carried out by a monitory and some feel issues may not be as bad as reported by the other petition. We thoroughly agree with this and is one of the reasons for our petition.
Some people do not feel a majority should be penalised for a minority and that a rule/law change will not solve issues. We thoroughly agree with this and is one of the reasons for our petition.
Some people feel that dogs being on leads and owners acting responsibly and respectfully in cemeteries is not an issue and may be due to very reasonable circumstances such as visiting historical or interesting headstones or having an emptional support dog. We thoroughly agree with this and is one of the reasons for our petition.
Some people also feel that asking for a rule/law change is in the grand scheme of things not a priority and the attention given to this is not porportionate to other real life issues. We thoroughly agree.
In relation to this last point, whilst obviously this issue is very important to ourselves and the other petition we do wonder whether council and government funds could be better spent and agree there are many other issues in our world which might need council/government attention more urgently.
Essentially, our desceased loved ones are safe, they have a place to rest peacefully and we have somewhere to go and visit them. A small minority of dog owners may let their dogs off leads and may not clean up their dog's mess but in reality whilst this causes upset it causes little to no real damage to our loved ones and there are already rules to address this. The rules do need better adherance and perhaps monitoring and enforcing - the council are attempting education and some monitoring/enforcement but they have limited funds.
Again, our desceased loved ones are safe and whilst it may be unpleasant and saddening to come across dog poo or have a dog running loose when you are mourning it doesn't stop your loved one being safe, there are rules to cover this behaviour and evidence suggests such behaviour is in the minority.
There are people out there who have to use food banks to feed themselves; people pulling out their own teeth because they can't get an NHS dentist and can't afford to go private; people waiting a long time for medical care; families are homeless or living in mouldy houses which are too small for them; people are worried about losing their jobs and how they will survive; people are dying due to hit and run accidents - this is what is happening in the wider world and in our city right now and everyone will be touched in some way or another by these issues.
In comparison, whilst awful for people involved issues in cemetries pale in significance to these issues so we can fully see where people are coming from.
We'd much prefer to stay with current rules and work on adherance to these rules rather than disadvantage current cemetery users based on a minority and spend goodness knows how much time and money to change a rule or introduce a new law (which we think is unlikely to have a positive effect) when there's many more things that the time and money could be spent on which affects more people and relates to serious safety and quality of life issues.
Cemetries are paid for by all and should be able to be used by all - respectfully, responsibly and in keeping with current rules. But the needless change of rules should not cost us extra money especially over other important issues.
Now to the actual comments - we'll do nextdoor today as it's too much to do reddit as well in one day.
In relation to our counter petition: "100% agree and what a refreshing post on this increasingly polarised issue. Thank you for injecting some common sense."
https://nextdoor.co.uk/p/7T4MhXxxbkzY?view=detail
"This problem arises every so often. Another rule for the sake of making a rule. Most dog owners are responsible. The responsible, gets penalised. The one's who are not responsible, don't care about rules."
In relation to our petition: "This is a really thoughtful post, thank you. I've signed this petition. I'd hope they could add in punitive fines for owners caught letting their dogs off lead, digging, fouling etc. I can't believe anyone would be that disrespectful, given it's a cemetery not a park. Thumbs up for people able to bring well-behaved dogs in on-lead at all times ��"
https://nextdoor.co.uk/p/kxxh-kNGPJNW?view=detail
"As mentioned previously, I have never visited Moriningside cemetery in the many years of living in Edinburgh, as have had no reason to, so decided on Friday to take a visit there twice (without my dogs I might add) as was visiting a friend in the area. It was a clear bright day, I was curious to see how many dogs were there with their owners, anticipated seeing a lot based on previous posts, the time was around 11am and again at 2.30pm approximately, and I saw no dogs! And only 2 people. Was quite surprised as was expecting to see a flurry of activity going on inside having read the petition and updates. The petition does not effect me so I'm neutral but just thought I'd note that it appears a very quiet place with often no dogs in it. My friend I was visiting who lives in Erhel Terrace a short walk away, has been there quite a few times to walk across as a short cut and also sees few dogs if any and has not witnessed any disrespectful behaviour. Perhaps passing an actual law regarding this matter seems a little ott and waste of resources imho"
"I think dogs are getting enough of a hard time with B.S.L without this too, stop excluding responsible owners because of a few irresponsible ones"
https://nextdoor.co.uk/p/9_-4mYBFr2pL?view=detail
"I love taking my dogs to Edinburgh cemeteries they are often a good quiet safe place to take dogs! I’m always respectful and I love reading the history! There’s a good book on Edinburgh cemeteries! So if everyone just treats them with the respect they deserve I don’t think there should be a problem as all spaces should be accessible for everyone!!! Thank you"
https://nextdoor.co.uk/p/5m978BhL2HR2?view=detail
In relation to the other petition:
"Not going sign it cause I don't really care however when I visit as long as there on the leash that's fine but it's a few that don't follow that rule"
"I have no problem with dog walkers walking their dogs in a cemetery or a public park. It's the knuckle draggers who let his/her dog run wild frightening adults and children alike that I find annoying. Most dog walkers I know are responsible people who have their dogs on a lead and a poop bag to pick up their animals business. Please try and remember it's nice to be nice"
https://nextdoor.co.uk/p/34Ls_JLwYz7N?view=detail
Post to the origional petition:
"There is an opposite petition - I’ve signed that one.
Bit of a first world problem if it’s a problem at all. Plenty of more important things to worry about."
Post to the other petition:
"just asking an obvious question, I'm sure honest and respectable dog owners would not 'pretend' to be mourners in order just to walk or exercise their dogs on a lead if your petition is successfully implemented, but it does pose the unavoidable question that if there are no 'checks' on whether a dog is accompanied by a mourner or not, which would be near impossible to govern, would it not be possible (and most likely) for people to walk their dogs on a lead for exercise on the pretense they are mourners if asked, sorry I hate to state the obvious but I'm sure this will inevitably happen anyway regardless of what the rules say. My own view is that providing they are well behaved and on a lead, all dogs should be allowed in cemeteries, for example if someone is just walking through the grounds. Would this scenario be classified as exercise? The issue is that the rules would be impossible to enforce successfully without cctv or wardens which would be inappropriate and intrusive"
"I regularly take my dog for a walk in a local cemetery at the weekend. I have only encountered a few dog walkers, not hundreds as stated (I think this number has been highly inflated). There are a few bins in my local which I have seen others as well as myself use. I love the wildlife, and reading the gravestones whilst exercising my dog. Why punish the mass for the obvious irresponsibility of a few. There are idiots in all walks of life. This seems to turning into a ridiculous pointless crusade. Who is going to police this? There are more pressing world problems going on which need a voice, this is just petty"
In reply to the above comment: "exactly. I’m almost tempted to go and spend a day there and count the number of offenders. I seriously doubt it would be 100, and that every one allows their dog to foul without picking up. I agree that owners must pick up but surely we can live and let live whilst encouraging responsible behaviour."
"From having looked around the area, I think the issue in Morningside, being such a congested busy area, may be that Morningside Park is quite small and mainly monopolised by children and their many activities the council provides for them, so unsuitable for dog walking, those in Comiston and southbound would inevitably and ideally use Braidburn Valley Park but those South of Comiston would probably, I'm guessing, see the cemetery as the nearest large 'green space' if they are not willing to walk to Braidburn Valley or the Craighouse woods leading to Craiglockhart. And of course many residents don't have cars so may not wish to travel far. I think therefore this particular cemetery is in quite an unfortunate unique position, mainly due to it's central atttactive location, and for that reason has been targeted in the petition despite not being the norm, as Monti has mentioned there have been very few complaints at other cemeteries."
"I do feel that the increasingly polarised response to this issue is indicative of our “ban it” culture. The majority are to be penalised because of the unacceptable behaviour of the minority. Perhaps more of a carrot approach rather than stick could be tried first? Clear signage, a bin at the entrance & even the offer of poo bags to offenders (can backfire I know). Problems can be overcome by taking people with us instead of always adopting an adversarial attitude."