Stop writing about God's love when you're SUING other Christians!

The issue

http://anglicancensorship.wordpress.com/

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/aus.religion.christian/V2Y9LHBa2Hc

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/england.religion.christian/99z3Hn9LbVU

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.clergy/-nAyM5TRt3A

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.christian.episcopal/o32YehzO-Eo

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.wicca/8QZEG8Epc84

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/aus.politics/YYVsl_Gj5bk

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bit.listserv.catholic/56wn5mlOSFU

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wayne_Jacobsen&diff=632445239&oldid=632444113

 

== “God loves me!” = So I can sue others ==

So the story goes like this, William P Young fails to sell book. But Pastors Wayne Jacobsen and Brad Cummings discover book, create start-up “Windblown Media” to publish it, and it becomes a bestseller. Now a bestseller, Hachette Book Group becomes involved, in a distribution agreement, to make it even bigger. The problem has been Young has had to file in the State Court a lawsuit against Jacobsen and Cummings, Windblown Media, and Hachette, that he is ”’owed $8 million”’ in lost royalties, because Windblown media had ripped him off by $8m, and asked that the relationship be “terminated”. Young was meant to receive 50c for every paperback, and $1 for every hardcover, plus ”’33% of net profits”’. Windblown/Hachette later entered into separate agreement, where Windblown would receive 17% of net profits, and Hachette taking 83%, leaving Young with ”’no net profits”’ (”cf. 33% of net profits bolded previously”). Apart from no profit share, Windblown/Hachette got “more and more creative” in determiing royalties, excluding 40% of sales by designating them as “high discount sales”, 10% distribution fee, a “return reserve”. ”’Jacobsen”’ (representing Windblown Media) ”’then COUNTERSUED for $5m”’ in Federal Court, in what is ”’clear retaliation”’ for the $8m lawsuit that Young had launched. Jacobsen argued that since Young’s statement ”’assumed there was NO contract”’ with Windblown (as you can see, attempts of using ”’legal loopholes”’), they sued him to have their ”’names as co-authors”’ because they had transformed an unpublishable manuscript into a bestseller, and even claim full authorship over the book. Windblown’s legal representative Martin Singer then said Young’s lawsuit was a complete misrepresentation of the author’s “financial state”. Jacobsen’s law responded that “[The federal court] action is a belated ”’attempt by”’ ['''Jacobsen''' and Cummings] ”’to take credit for a book they didn’t write”’. Back ”’before the work was known to be a bestseller”’, ”’both parties filed”’ a ”’copyright notice indicating that Young was the sole author”’. For ”’3 years Windblown”’ has been ”’publishing the book under Young’s name”’. They ”’agreed in a written contract that Young was the sole author”’ of The Shack”. On his website, Jacobsen says he spent 16 months rewriting the book, in what was evidently a ”’public relations blogosphere war promulgated by Wayne Jacobsen”’. Later, ”’Jacobsen’s lawsuit was dismissed”’ in a document that can be found here ([https://cases.justia.com/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/2:2010cv03246/471401/57/0.pdf 1]). Other sources also attached ([http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/13/entertainment/la-et-the-shack-20100713 2], [http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2010/07/articles/the-law/for-law-students/the-shack-lawsuits-raise-a-law-school-exams-worth-of-federal-courts-issues/ 3], [http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2012/12/the_shack_houses_a_multitude_o.html 4]).

You see this is the problem with authors like Wayne Jacobsen and [[Mark Driscoll]], they are ”’excellent preachers”’, but ”’bad at doing the very things they preach”’. So Jacobsen: ”’God loves you, but do you love others?”’ Or do you just take them to court? This is the problem with God’s love. It’s not that people don’t understand it. It’s that people like ”’you abuse God’s love”’. It’s the pedophile priests who say “”’God loves me, even if I touch little kiddies”'”, or the wife beater who says “God loves me, even if I bash my wife”. Do you think that kiddie predators fail to understand God’s love for them? Of course NOT! That’s why they go on abusing others, because they think they can get away with it, because they can do whatever they like, and God will still “love” them. That’s the problem with the the book which Jacobsen describes as his “favourite” amongst those he’s written (“”He loves me””), it’s ”’NOT that people don’t understand God’s love”’, it’s that ”’you Christians abuse God’s love, and fail to love others”’! The key thing Jesus taught was not about beliefs (e.g. that God loves you), but about fruits (i.e. actually loving others).

As a user has nicely portrayed here ([http://thewartburgwatch.com/2013/04/19/introducing-paul-young-author-of-the-shack/ 5]): “”It seems that, though settled out of court, there is ”’no reconciliation”’ of those involved. I have listened to Wayne… His ”’messages are full of love, grace and Christ”’. Perhaps questions could be asked… It’s ”’hard to receive a message from someone who has”’ a broken relationship with brothers in Christ. I have no idea exactly what happened, and who was at fault, but how can men who both claim to love Christ and His grace not be reconciled? Perhaps the out of court settlement doesn’t allow for the true facts to come out? Or have I missed something in all this?”” [[User:Atheist3500|Atheist3500]] ([[User talk:Atheist3500|talk]]) 17:05, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

: I think in his writing, Jacobsen really misses the point. For instance, in his response to criticism made about the book [https://windblownmedia.com/about-wbm/is-the-shack-heresy.html 1] he states, “”This is not the angry and tyrannical God that religion has been using for 2000 years to beat people into conformity””. This is absolute preposterous! Why? Because apart from those with [[avoidant personality disorder]], ”’no Christian is honestly “scared of God””’. If they were truly “scared of God”, would they touch little kiddies in God’s house? I would more likely think that many Christians have insufficient reverence for God! Rather, after having being “abused” by the clergy, they then become abusers of others. More like the person with [[narcissistic personality disorder]], these ”’Christians now become the angry and tyrannical leader”’, who God has sent, ”’to beat others into conformity”’. Perhaps even ”’just like what Jacobsen is trying to do with these books”’. Beat others into conformity! Say what they are doing is “wrong” (i.e. feeling like what they do sways God’s opinion of them”, and that only his way of thinking is “right” (i.e. not to be swayed by what you do on God’s love). This is Jacobsen’s own intellectual ”’arrogance”’. But like his books say, it ”’doesn’t really matter”’. ”’God loves you anyway”’. So then why beat people into submission to your way of thinking?? [[User:Atheist3500|Atheist3500]] ([[User talk:Atheist3500|talk]]) 17:39, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

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Jim SmithPetition starter
This petition had 1 supporter

The issue

http://anglicancensorship.wordpress.com/

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/aus.religion.christian/V2Y9LHBa2Hc

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/england.religion.christian/99z3Hn9LbVU

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.clergy/-nAyM5TRt3A

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.christian.episcopal/o32YehzO-Eo

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.wicca/8QZEG8Epc84

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/aus.politics/YYVsl_Gj5bk

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bit.listserv.catholic/56wn5mlOSFU

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wayne_Jacobsen&diff=632445239&oldid=632444113

 

== “God loves me!” = So I can sue others ==

So the story goes like this, William P Young fails to sell book. But Pastors Wayne Jacobsen and Brad Cummings discover book, create start-up “Windblown Media” to publish it, and it becomes a bestseller. Now a bestseller, Hachette Book Group becomes involved, in a distribution agreement, to make it even bigger. The problem has been Young has had to file in the State Court a lawsuit against Jacobsen and Cummings, Windblown Media, and Hachette, that he is ”’owed $8 million”’ in lost royalties, because Windblown media had ripped him off by $8m, and asked that the relationship be “terminated”. Young was meant to receive 50c for every paperback, and $1 for every hardcover, plus ”’33% of net profits”’. Windblown/Hachette later entered into separate agreement, where Windblown would receive 17% of net profits, and Hachette taking 83%, leaving Young with ”’no net profits”’ (”cf. 33% of net profits bolded previously”). Apart from no profit share, Windblown/Hachette got “more and more creative” in determiing royalties, excluding 40% of sales by designating them as “high discount sales”, 10% distribution fee, a “return reserve”. ”’Jacobsen”’ (representing Windblown Media) ”’then COUNTERSUED for $5m”’ in Federal Court, in what is ”’clear retaliation”’ for the $8m lawsuit that Young had launched. Jacobsen argued that since Young’s statement ”’assumed there was NO contract”’ with Windblown (as you can see, attempts of using ”’legal loopholes”’), they sued him to have their ”’names as co-authors”’ because they had transformed an unpublishable manuscript into a bestseller, and even claim full authorship over the book. Windblown’s legal representative Martin Singer then said Young’s lawsuit was a complete misrepresentation of the author’s “financial state”. Jacobsen’s law responded that “[The federal court] action is a belated ”’attempt by”’ ['''Jacobsen''' and Cummings] ”’to take credit for a book they didn’t write”’. Back ”’before the work was known to be a bestseller”’, ”’both parties filed”’ a ”’copyright notice indicating that Young was the sole author”’. For ”’3 years Windblown”’ has been ”’publishing the book under Young’s name”’. They ”’agreed in a written contract that Young was the sole author”’ of The Shack”. On his website, Jacobsen says he spent 16 months rewriting the book, in what was evidently a ”’public relations blogosphere war promulgated by Wayne Jacobsen”’. Later, ”’Jacobsen’s lawsuit was dismissed”’ in a document that can be found here ([https://cases.justia.com/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/2:2010cv03246/471401/57/0.pdf 1]). Other sources also attached ([http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/13/entertainment/la-et-the-shack-20100713 2], [http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2010/07/articles/the-law/for-law-students/the-shack-lawsuits-raise-a-law-school-exams-worth-of-federal-courts-issues/ 3], [http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2012/12/the_shack_houses_a_multitude_o.html 4]).

You see this is the problem with authors like Wayne Jacobsen and [[Mark Driscoll]], they are ”’excellent preachers”’, but ”’bad at doing the very things they preach”’. So Jacobsen: ”’God loves you, but do you love others?”’ Or do you just take them to court? This is the problem with God’s love. It’s not that people don’t understand it. It’s that people like ”’you abuse God’s love”’. It’s the pedophile priests who say “”’God loves me, even if I touch little kiddies”'”, or the wife beater who says “God loves me, even if I bash my wife”. Do you think that kiddie predators fail to understand God’s love for them? Of course NOT! That’s why they go on abusing others, because they think they can get away with it, because they can do whatever they like, and God will still “love” them. That’s the problem with the the book which Jacobsen describes as his “favourite” amongst those he’s written (“”He loves me””), it’s ”’NOT that people don’t understand God’s love”’, it’s that ”’you Christians abuse God’s love, and fail to love others”’! The key thing Jesus taught was not about beliefs (e.g. that God loves you), but about fruits (i.e. actually loving others).

As a user has nicely portrayed here ([http://thewartburgwatch.com/2013/04/19/introducing-paul-young-author-of-the-shack/ 5]): “”It seems that, though settled out of court, there is ”’no reconciliation”’ of those involved. I have listened to Wayne… His ”’messages are full of love, grace and Christ”’. Perhaps questions could be asked… It’s ”’hard to receive a message from someone who has”’ a broken relationship with brothers in Christ. I have no idea exactly what happened, and who was at fault, but how can men who both claim to love Christ and His grace not be reconciled? Perhaps the out of court settlement doesn’t allow for the true facts to come out? Or have I missed something in all this?”” [[User:Atheist3500|Atheist3500]] ([[User talk:Atheist3500|talk]]) 17:05, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

: I think in his writing, Jacobsen really misses the point. For instance, in his response to criticism made about the book [https://windblownmedia.com/about-wbm/is-the-shack-heresy.html 1] he states, “”This is not the angry and tyrannical God that religion has been using for 2000 years to beat people into conformity””. This is absolute preposterous! Why? Because apart from those with [[avoidant personality disorder]], ”’no Christian is honestly “scared of God””’. If they were truly “scared of God”, would they touch little kiddies in God’s house? I would more likely think that many Christians have insufficient reverence for God! Rather, after having being “abused” by the clergy, they then become abusers of others. More like the person with [[narcissistic personality disorder]], these ”’Christians now become the angry and tyrannical leader”’, who God has sent, ”’to beat others into conformity”’. Perhaps even ”’just like what Jacobsen is trying to do with these books”’. Beat others into conformity! Say what they are doing is “wrong” (i.e. feeling like what they do sways God’s opinion of them”, and that only his way of thinking is “right” (i.e. not to be swayed by what you do on God’s love). This is Jacobsen’s own intellectual ”’arrogance”’. But like his books say, it ”’doesn’t really matter”’. ”’God loves you anyway”’. So then why beat people into submission to your way of thinking?? [[User:Atheist3500|Atheist3500]] ([[User talk:Atheist3500|talk]]) 17:39, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

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Petition created on 4 November 2014