Remove the Tide Turner's charge reduction mechanic and use a better method of balancing the weapon.

The Issue

Team Fortress 2's 'Smissmas Update' has modified many weapons. The weapon 'Tide Turner' was modified as it was seen as overpowered by the community. Changes were made to ensure fair play, and to make the weilder of the Tide Turner less powerful when charging.

However, these changes were greatly exaggerated. Charging towards enemies with the Tide Turner is now very underpowered for many reasons.

I will list how the weapon now works in three categories. The ExecutionThe Player and The Opponents.

1. The Execution

Currently, taking damage on hit doesn't simply reduce the charge duration. Most damage sources seem to outright end charges altogether. For example, a Sniper Rifle 'bodyshot' will completely stop a charge despite only dealing 50 damage. This means that stopping a charging Demoman is currently too easy, even if you're a class in the 'support' category.

Secondly, the charge meter can be reduced on fall damage. A common strategy for some players is to shield charge from higher platforms towards enemies down below, but this strategy is completely negated by this. We are fairly sure this is a bug, so we are awaiting a patch for this.

2. The Player.

I have spoken to many people who have used the Tide Turner and other shield weapons in the past. They have confirmed that most people are very used to the charge duration being consistent and predictable. This is what allows most players to swing the sword weapon in the correct timing to deal the most damage to their opponent. It becomes a habit to swing at this exact timing, unless an enemy is visually in front of them, triggering the player to swing early.

The problem with these new changes is that it disrupts the natural timing habit of the player with no visual indication. Players who have previously learned to swing the sword at the right time may need to guess whether their charge duration is reduced or not, or else damage potential is wasted. This is not only an unreliable strategy, but it also creates uncertainty on when the player should swing the weapon.

3. The Opponents.

I believe this section to be the most important part.

Before we get into this section, let's look a little bit into what the Tide Turner is currently used for. The player does not use a Stickybomb Launcher, nor does he have the defensive capabilities that the Chargin' Targe grants. The Demoman sacrifices all of this power to be able to perform a single, very powerful charge attack against one unlucky opponent, and hopefully use the charge meter refill to escape from a difficult encounter.

The Tide Turner user's main role is to use this power charge to kill important support classes, such as Medics, Snipers and Gunslinger-weilding Engineers by either ambushing them or shield charging directly towards them when that support class' team members are not defending them. These classes are not supposed to be able to defend themselves very well on their own when encountered at close range, with the exception of Engineer who does have a bit more powerful retaliation. Classes such as Soldier, Demoman and Pyro are classes that are supposed to defend themselves. I will write about charging directly towards them, first.

As mentioned in 'The Execution', shield charges require too little damage to stop. They can also be stopped by support classes and other classes that the Shield Demoman is designed to kill. This causes, say a Medic, to be able to save himself from the charge even when his team members are not paying attention. This rejects the player's main role of killing that support class and means the player has a much harder time accomplishing something the class is meant to do. In addition, while dealing with Gunslinger-weilding Engineers, Mini-Sentry Guns can also reduce the charge meter without the Engineer or any other team member knowing the location of the shield Demoman while he is charging, and without the Demoman knowing where the gun is. This seemingly minor thing can completely ruin an ambush, despite the damage from the gun being enough on its own.

Summary of all the problems listed above:

1. The charge duration reduction mechanic causes difficulty in utilizing the shield charge, due to attack timing issues caused by the reduction.

2. Classes not normally meant to defend themselves from a charging Demoman can defend themselves too easily on their lonesome. Therefore, Medics, Snipers and Engineers should not be able to cause the meter to deplete.

3. Fall damage and sentry guns should not cause the meter to deplete.

 

How can we fix these issues?

We must remove the charge reduction mechanic entirely, and choose one or more of the below options as a replacement adjustment to the Tide Turner.

Option 1: Lower the resistances on the shield's stats by 10% on both Fire and Explosive.

Option 2: Add bullet vulnerability on the shield's stats so classes such as Sniper, Heavy, Scout and Engineer can kill the class easier when the Demoman is not charging.

Option 3: Add push force increase from explosions when charging, allowing the player to only stop the charge if their aim is right.

Option 4: Increase the charge recharge rate. (From 12 seconds to 16 seconds.)

Option 5: Add a new type of adjustment that only affects the Demoman when he isn't charging towards an opponent.

Option 6: Mark the weilder for death for 2-4 seconds if the charge does not kill a player.

Please sign if you support the 'Demoknight' community and support their wish for a more reasonable weapon penalty on the 'Tide Turner' weapon.

Let's get this weapon back up and running, both balanced and reliable!

avatar of the starter
The Lochknight WarriorsPetition Starter
This petition had 354 supporters

The Issue

Team Fortress 2's 'Smissmas Update' has modified many weapons. The weapon 'Tide Turner' was modified as it was seen as overpowered by the community. Changes were made to ensure fair play, and to make the weilder of the Tide Turner less powerful when charging.

However, these changes were greatly exaggerated. Charging towards enemies with the Tide Turner is now very underpowered for many reasons.

I will list how the weapon now works in three categories. The ExecutionThe Player and The Opponents.

1. The Execution

Currently, taking damage on hit doesn't simply reduce the charge duration. Most damage sources seem to outright end charges altogether. For example, a Sniper Rifle 'bodyshot' will completely stop a charge despite only dealing 50 damage. This means that stopping a charging Demoman is currently too easy, even if you're a class in the 'support' category.

Secondly, the charge meter can be reduced on fall damage. A common strategy for some players is to shield charge from higher platforms towards enemies down below, but this strategy is completely negated by this. We are fairly sure this is a bug, so we are awaiting a patch for this.

2. The Player.

I have spoken to many people who have used the Tide Turner and other shield weapons in the past. They have confirmed that most people are very used to the charge duration being consistent and predictable. This is what allows most players to swing the sword weapon in the correct timing to deal the most damage to their opponent. It becomes a habit to swing at this exact timing, unless an enemy is visually in front of them, triggering the player to swing early.

The problem with these new changes is that it disrupts the natural timing habit of the player with no visual indication. Players who have previously learned to swing the sword at the right time may need to guess whether their charge duration is reduced or not, or else damage potential is wasted. This is not only an unreliable strategy, but it also creates uncertainty on when the player should swing the weapon.

3. The Opponents.

I believe this section to be the most important part.

Before we get into this section, let's look a little bit into what the Tide Turner is currently used for. The player does not use a Stickybomb Launcher, nor does he have the defensive capabilities that the Chargin' Targe grants. The Demoman sacrifices all of this power to be able to perform a single, very powerful charge attack against one unlucky opponent, and hopefully use the charge meter refill to escape from a difficult encounter.

The Tide Turner user's main role is to use this power charge to kill important support classes, such as Medics, Snipers and Gunslinger-weilding Engineers by either ambushing them or shield charging directly towards them when that support class' team members are not defending them. These classes are not supposed to be able to defend themselves very well on their own when encountered at close range, with the exception of Engineer who does have a bit more powerful retaliation. Classes such as Soldier, Demoman and Pyro are classes that are supposed to defend themselves. I will write about charging directly towards them, first.

As mentioned in 'The Execution', shield charges require too little damage to stop. They can also be stopped by support classes and other classes that the Shield Demoman is designed to kill. This causes, say a Medic, to be able to save himself from the charge even when his team members are not paying attention. This rejects the player's main role of killing that support class and means the player has a much harder time accomplishing something the class is meant to do. In addition, while dealing with Gunslinger-weilding Engineers, Mini-Sentry Guns can also reduce the charge meter without the Engineer or any other team member knowing the location of the shield Demoman while he is charging, and without the Demoman knowing where the gun is. This seemingly minor thing can completely ruin an ambush, despite the damage from the gun being enough on its own.

Summary of all the problems listed above:

1. The charge duration reduction mechanic causes difficulty in utilizing the shield charge, due to attack timing issues caused by the reduction.

2. Classes not normally meant to defend themselves from a charging Demoman can defend themselves too easily on their lonesome. Therefore, Medics, Snipers and Engineers should not be able to cause the meter to deplete.

3. Fall damage and sentry guns should not cause the meter to deplete.

 

How can we fix these issues?

We must remove the charge reduction mechanic entirely, and choose one or more of the below options as a replacement adjustment to the Tide Turner.

Option 1: Lower the resistances on the shield's stats by 10% on both Fire and Explosive.

Option 2: Add bullet vulnerability on the shield's stats so classes such as Sniper, Heavy, Scout and Engineer can kill the class easier when the Demoman is not charging.

Option 3: Add push force increase from explosions when charging, allowing the player to only stop the charge if their aim is right.

Option 4: Increase the charge recharge rate. (From 12 seconds to 16 seconds.)

Option 5: Add a new type of adjustment that only affects the Demoman when he isn't charging towards an opponent.

Option 6: Mark the weilder for death for 2-4 seconds if the charge does not kill a player.

Please sign if you support the 'Demoknight' community and support their wish for a more reasonable weapon penalty on the 'Tide Turner' weapon.

Let's get this weapon back up and running, both balanced and reliable!

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The Lochknight WarriorsPetition Starter

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TF Team
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Petition created on 29 December 2014