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EL&C Baillieu

 

Thanks to one anonymous tipoff we can see a little bit about how IPO's work behind the scenes.  A rare glimpse can be seen from the conversation between EL&C Baillieu’s Head of Corporate Finance Stephen Macaw and a potential investor. The investor was posing as the representative of wealthy Arab investors who wired a tape recorder to himself and had conversations with Stephen and his brother Scott in Denmark and then released it to journalists.

The poser was pretending he wanted cheap shares in a share float (IPO). 

Steve Macaw: But - yeah, so, but I would much prefer to make money for us, and for a partner. I’ll still - so every deal, I think I said this to you at breakfast, every deal we do, it’s a really good deal, if needs $10, we might take 5, but on the other 5 we’ll still spread it out  so that when it comes to the float, there’s still - you’re gonna have Australian institutions in there as well. Does that make sense?

Actor: Yeah.

Steve Macaw: But on - so that’s ..., is a $50 million pre-IPO, we might need ... put 20 or 25 million in, and you know, in 12 months you turn that 20 into 35. You know, 30-35. So we’ll make very good money and it will be part of the bigger picture....

Actor: So no one....

Steve Macaw: -one step back.

Actor: -no one will ask anything?

Steve Macaw: No one will ask anything.

Actor: And how would you divide the - your part between you?

Steve Macaw: It’s up to him. Shake hands.

Actor: No, but nothing comes. I don’t want any problems in the sense that this is - this does not exist.

Steve Macaw: It’s - yeah, absolutely.

Actor: This exists, this exists naturally. That’s the beautiful part here.

Steve Macaw: Yeah.

Actor: You’re brothers, you speak on a daily basis, you’re good friends. This does not exist.

Steve Macaw: Correct.

Steve Macaw: ‘If you wanna be my advisor, be my advisor and I’ll pay you for it. What do you want?’

Actor: You have to choose only the two? Okay.

Steve Macaw: So, some clients ... on that. Other clients said, ‘Fantastic, I want you to have some ownership’. Sometimes it could be tricky but, you know, if you end up with a big position and you’re meant to be advising, you don’t end up in that position....

Steve Macaw: Isn’t there a conflict of interest?

Steve Macaw: Well, there can be, yeah. So, that’s why I think, when I spoke to Scott about this is separating it. Becauses I trust him, anything that he takes in positioning, I don’t wanna know about it. I trust him that the economics can flow back later. I can do my job and just focus on getting the best outcome, and he can do restructuring and he can do....

Actor: I understand he’s the structuring....

Steve Macaw: Yeah, he’s good.

Actor: -expert.

Steve Macaw: He’s good, yeah.

Steve Macaw: Well, because we are the corporate advisor. So, out of our 200 people, 120 will do ‘mom and dad’, you know, look after your account managing $2 million. So, mostly our account sizes are $2 to $5 million, and they....

Actor: No, I’m talking about the big investors, not the small....

Steve Macaw: But again, we can, and I mean I can put money in, but that’s why this makes sense for me too, because our job is to make sure we fund in the $10 million. That’s my job. I know with some of these that they’re gonna be fantastic. Some....

Actor: That’s exactly the question....

Steve Macaw: -some of them will be good, and some will be fantastic.

Actor: No, I’m talking about the fantastic ones. That’s the ....

Steve Macaw: So, the two I’ve just showed you and one more I’m going to you, are going to be fantastic. Look, I might put in 250, or 500 of my own money, but I don’t have $5 million to put into it. But I would— but when I watch these institutions make tens and tens of millions of dollars, like for Regal’s got $6 billion and they pay us the most brokerage on the street because our ideas are the best. So, basically, what it meant is, effectively, we would be giving you first look of the best deals, and the reason its good for me is, if Scott is involved with you, then, I get some benefit there.

Actor: You make money twice: once on the commission which goes into Baillieu, and whatever is on the side?

Steve Macaw: ... I get some return so that you guys start getting the best allocations of the best stuff.

Actor: Tax wise.

Steve Macaw: Umm, that’s my wife. A bit of if comes that way.

Actor: Nothing to buy here. Nothing to show here.

Actor: So, I need to know that you’re on board. I need to know that you can do it. I need to know that when you reach an obstacle, you have the means, the connections, the way to do it smart, okay?

Steve Macaw: Yeah.

Actor: Yeah, meaning you can do it?

Steve Macaw: Yes.

Actor: Okay. And make - you have to make sure - you know, someone told me, ‘Everyone does it. Only stupid get caught.’ Okay? And I don’t see myself or my associates stupid, okay? Now, as I said, I’ve checked a bit, you have a good reputation, a very good reputation.

Steve Macaw: Thank you.

Actor: And there is a reason why we’re sitting, okay? As you can understand, I’m, my time is very limited.

Steve Macaw: Yes.

Actor: And if I see a good, big potential - not potential, potential is not interesting from my side. Good big potential, okay? With all due respect, I’m here for the big money. Okay? As I said, 10, 15, 20 per cent, sorry but this is not .....

Steve Macaw: Understood.

Actor: Okay? It’s conventional investment but there... it’s really not interesting for me. We’re looking for the, for a partnership, for people who are hungry, okay? Hungry.

Steve Macaw: Yeah.

Actor: Or discreet and have the abilities. But they have to be all three together.

Steve Macaw: Yes.

Actor: If you’re only hungry but you don’t have the abilities, then you will stay hungry, I’m sorry. The abilities, you have, you know. Okay? Hungry, I don’t know.

Steve Macaw: Yeah, I’m hungry.

Actor: Okay, you have to be hungry.

Steve Macaw: I want to make a lot of money in the next five years.

Actor: No, we’re not talking about a lot of money.

Steve Macaw: Then what?

Actor: We’re talking about heaps good, okay? That’s where I wanna go. And discreet, you understand the importance here, okay?

Steve Macaw: Yeah.

Actor: I know you’ve been bitten once; you don’t want to be bitten....

Macaw: Not going back, yeah.

Actor: Exactly.

Steve Macaw: But I think the most valuable... the discreet is a must, that’s guaranteed. The most valuable attributes that I can bring to this is follow the best-quality deals early and then getting us the best structure into them, we can. And then, and then, managing it very professionally so that you guys are taking very intelligent leveraged high-return positions....

Actor: Yes.

Steve Macaw: But you’ve actually got the person who’s running the deal, you’ve actually got the person representing the client on the other side is actually yours.

Actor: Without the client knowing.

Steve Macaw: Knowing, yeah.

Actor: That’s the important part.

Steve Macaw: Exactly.

Actor: That’s the role....

Steve Macaw: So, to me, that, that structure, those skill sets and having that local knowledge but knowing all the guys in the government, having being friends with them, by getting under the lawyers and the accountants but knowing how to get in and out of situations, you get the benefit of all of that.

Scott Macaw: Anyway, Steve and I take - it’s, it is a mix of, you know, if we did this and made money on Australian deals, then basically we would share that. And, but there is some tax in that as well. Which is also....

Actor: I’m asking....

Scott Macaw: advantageous.

Actor: -tax-wise, if I’m foreign, am I under Aussie law in regards to taxes?

Scott Macaw: No. we - these investments would be made through an entity, a structure....

Actor: Aussie or foreign?

Scott Macaw: No, foreign.

Actor: Okay.

Scott Macaw: That would not be subject to tax.

Actor: Zero taxes in Australia?

Scott Macaw: Zero tax in Australia. That’s why....

Actor: And if it’s - if the entity is off-shore, then zero tax in general?

Scott Macaw: No, not in general. So, the Australian tax laws are really nasty, and that’s why the, from a tax perspective, absolutely the best is if we’re dealing with listed or broadly invested instruments. So, if you have - if you go as a private, you know, if we set up a structure, Panamanian company, BVI company, and we invest it into real-estate in Australia, then we’re gonna get taxed, you know....

Actor: In Australia?

Scott Macaw: In Australia.

Actor: Because they know it’s coming from an offshore - they know it’s tax evasion?

Scott Macaw: Just - yeah, well, not just because the assets are Australian. If you go into... privately, straight into an Australian company, like, take

some of Steve’s deals and we go straight in, it’s also going to be tax difficult. If it is a structured deal through Baillieu’s, even if it starts as debt, normally it will be okay, depending on where it come from.

Actor: Once again, explain exactly.

Scott Macaw: So, my suggestion, if we do this, would be to come in through New Zealand structure, because New Zealand and Australia have special....

Actor: Structure companies?

Scott Macaw: A company. They have a special relationship.

Actor: Okay.

Scott Macaw: And you basically, there’s a big difference in Australia if you are the only lender, like, if we set up a New Zealand structure and you put in $100, and we lend that to a private Australian company....

Actor: Baillieu?

Scott Macaw: No, not Baillieu’s, a private is the end customer....

Actor: Okay.

Scott Macaw: -and it’s only us, we’re gonna have a tax problem. There’s a massive advantage....

Actor: Okay.

Scott Macaw: -if it’s a structured instrument that Baillieu’s has put together....

Actor: Baillieu.

Scott Macaw: -and there’s us, and a number of other clients.

Actor: So, then your taxes relate - relatively, in relativity to the amount you put, or the tax structure is complete....

Scott Macaw: There’s no tax, there won’t be any tax.

Actor: Zero?

Scott Macaw: Zero.

Actor: Thank you.

Scott Macaw: In Australia....

Actor: Where do I sign?

Scott Macaw: No. In Australia zero, in New Zealand zero, and we need to talk about where the money is coming from so.

Actor: Even if there’s a offshore company, let’s say, offshore – New Zealand – Australia?

Scott Macaw: Correct.

Actor: Zero tax?

Scott Macaw: Zero.

Actor: You’re sure about that?

Scott Macaw: I am - there’s - 1,000 per cent sure of that.

Actor: You’ve done that and it works?

Scott Macaw: I’ve done that, I did - of course, yeah, it works. 1,000 per cent.

Actor: Very, very interesting.

Scott Macaw: But the, so the - so it’s - the thing is though, where's the money coming from? You and I, we’ll probably have to have a convers - pretty frank conversation about where is it coming from, and....

Actor: Do I need - if I put into the offshore company 100 million, do I have to put a KYC?

Scott Macaw: Depends. So, that’s what - you and I need to have a pretty frank conversation about the whole KYC issue, and where's the money, what’s the source and is there an issue that we need to....

Actor: The money is legit, the money is legal. It’s not....

Scott Macaw: So - no, the New Zealand entity, if we’re going through New Zealand, which is the best because New Zealand-Australia have this very interesting bilateral relationship

Actor: Yeah.

Scott Macaw: -so all sorts of tax things in New Zealand are interesting, with Australia. So, let’s say we’re gonna get the money into New Zealand, because....

Actor: No, but if you have an offshore company, then that’s easy.

Scott Macaw: That’s easy, I....

Actor: No?

Scott Macaw: Yeah, that’s easy, but I don’t know, you know, I don’t know exactly, you know, what the KYC around the cabinet is.

Actor: Speak freely.

Scott Macaw: So, it depend - you need to tell me what the issues, tax or KYC-wise, are around knowing are there any delicacies in getting the money into the New Zealand structure or not. Because is it gonna go direct, or am I gonna - because....

Actor: You said, what’s the best way to....

Scott Macaw: The best way is that if there is a question from Australia to New Zealand that they answer truthfully, honestly, than they don’t know.

Actor: Yeah.

Scott Macaw: That’s what I’m getting at, so....

Actor: You know what? I’m sure we can find a New Zealand entity that will protect our interests.

Scott Macaw: I can organise a New Zealand entity so they can protect our interests.

Actor: Yeah.

Scott Macaw: It’s a question of, let’s say you’ve got $100 in a big Panamanian company. Does it go direct into New Zealand or does it go direct something else?We sort that out. The important thing collectively there is that, is that I....

Actor: By the way I think the problem is not how it goes in, the problem is how it goes out. That’s a bigger problem.

Scott Macaw: Actually, no, no. They’re getting out with... there’s no... it’s actually not a problem.

Actor: It’s gonna be... as you can show it’s a ... deal, it’s fine.

Scott Macaw: That’s not gonna be a problem. I can organise all of that. The issue is we’ve got two, I think we have two things. One operationally, we need Steve and Baillieu to feel comfortable that the foreign investors, New Zealand entity co will pass all of the KYC and everything they’re comfortable, this is....

Actor: You know what CIS is?

Scott Macaw: CIS?

Actor: Yeah. You know what is it? CIS is a very lean, very lean KYC. KYC is know your client. CIS is customer information sheet.

Scott Macaw: Yeah.

Actor: Okay? A lot of financial institutions that I deal with... the first question is, you want CIS, right? Because CIS has two pages. S

ometimes it’s one page. KYC could be 20 pages.

Scott Macaw: Yeah.

Actor: So, we have to find, and I can help here, institutions that are willing, and there are a lot of them, that CIS is enough. There are a lot of institutions that worth the money but they don’t really care where it’s coming from. You don’t really care.

Scott Macaw: But the issue is... sorry. Towards Baillieus and Steve, there will be no KYC issues because the structure will be 100 per cent combined and we’re gonna divide values with absolutely everything about that entity and the paperwork, blah, blah, blah.

Actor: Do Baillieu’s need to know that this is... exist?

Scott Macaw: No.

Actor: What will they know?

Scott Macaw: No. They will know....

Stephen Macaw: It’s gonna be only our thing, so, it’s not a surprise to you we should do. That entity in New Zealand should open a broker account with Baillieu and should also open a broker account with one of the brokerings...

Scott Macaw: Yeah, it’s...

Stephen Macaw: So that we’re selling out of an IPO till we put you in floats you may well end up selling. Instead of selling through Baillieus, you might sell through...

Actor: Through a different market?

Stephen Macaw: Citigroup or something else in the market...

Scott Macaw: Yeah.

Stephen Macaw: -so that it breaks it again and.. so, a fund manager’s always gonna have more than one client. So, you’ll have Baillieus and one other...

Scott Macaw: You don’t wanna say that Baillieu’s...

Stephen Macaw: -and I’ll be selling ....

Scott Macaw: -that they’ve listed the company and then they’re.. one of their clients is selling. We’ll sell out of another account.

Actor: But that.. okay, would that cause an issue?

Stephen Macaw: No, but it just.. it doesn’t make me look good if I sell. So, they put.. so they float something for 200 million, we wanna take your 10 million out, which is now worth 20 million. I prefer it comes out through this broker selling...

Actor: Why?

Stephen Macaw: -now, I might be enough. We’d make some, we’d broke one month to a half but it just...

Actor: Is that regulatory...

Stephen Macaw: -and it just looks strange to that client.

Actor: Regulatory-wise, it’s a problem?

Stephen Macaw: No, it’s more, like...

Scott Macaw: I don’t think so.

Stephen Macaw: It’s more from me, from a marketing point of view. I'm telling people this is a good...

Scott Macaw: This is a great opportunity.

Stephen Macaw: -this is a good firm.

Actor: So, buy it, and on the other hand, you’re selling, so...

Stephen Macaw: Yeah.

Actor: -you’re okay.

Stephen Macaw: That’s what I was just saying, don’t get a surprise. Tthat entity should open Baillieus and then maybe two other brokers in Australia. But Scott can do that. I won't.. I don’t need to know about that, except that the people he opened that with. It can be, you know ...

Scott Macaw: Friends. Yeah.

Actor: Okay. Tax wise, what’s the taxation for foreign investors and, you know, and....

Stephen Macaw: That’s better for Scott.

Actor: He’s the....

Stephen Macaw: He’ll set you up with his ... he will set it up that it’s tax- free environment.

Actor: If we were to use the revenues - I’ll tell you how we work. We take, we take a big investment, okay, and we invest money, and we then take out some of the money and invest it in real - I personally believe in real estate. And then we invest it in real estate, okay? Development or residential or recreation, it doesn’t matter. In some of the places around Europe the investments are usually not on my name, not on our name.

Stephen Macaw: Sure.

Actor: The question is, can that be done in Australia?

Stephen Macaw: Sure.

Actor: How?

Stephen Macaw: Ask Scott, but I mean, effectively, if you guys set up, say, a fund, let’s say you set up a funding....

Actor: A local Australian fund?

Stephen Macaw: In Australia or in you might set it up from out at Singapore, or wherever you set it up. So, that’s, that’s funded in who the shareholders are is up to you, guys. But we get Fidelity investing our investments out of the US all the time. We get, we get... money comes in from Hong Kong, from New York, from ..., we’ve got lots of other, say, Seychelles. So, you would just turn on that engine, you would just show up as an investor on their share registry....

Actor: And they can’t look into it?

Stephen Macaw: It’s not, it’s not....

Actor: -and Scott.

Stephen Macaw: It’s not our business.

Actor: Okay.

Stephen Macaw: So, we would be saying to our client with this, look, you know, ‘cause they’ll... the institutional clients wanna say this, that’s fine, but we would say, ‘we got a high-quality investor’, they’re long-term, they’ll support you through the float if you need to put more money in the float. You know, with just....

Actor: And they listen to you?

Stephen Macaw: Yeah, of course. They’re our client.

Actor: Yeah, but if you ... recommend ... with a recommendation....

Stephen Macaw: Of course.

Actor: That means that I need - I don’t need to - competitors are a non-issue here?

Stephen Macaw: Correct, except that what I was saying earlier. If we were doing 30 million, I would say what we should do let’s say 20 of it and leave 10 so that I have the best named institutions sitting alongside you because then it takes....

Actor: They’ll just ....

Stephen Macaw: Yeah, they’ll - it’s a bit of a cover. And also, when we go to the float, all of those go, everyone goes all the way out. Regals in it, Acorns in it, Ellerstons in it, and they’ve got some big back-outs, some big high net-worth clients’ fund out of Europe. That’s - all I need to know.

Actor: How much of a contribution your name has to the deal? Meaning, in front of the local market, when it’s known that Steve is behind a deal, it’s a - you’re ... a strong factor?

Stephen Macaw: Yeah, I would say that. I would say that most people would argue that if we start a deal, we get it done as well if not better than anyone. But we do are work first, we don’t push. The ones we go hard on, like these ones I’m showing you now, they will get done, because we will just do it until we get it done. Some, some, you know, some deals come across that, they’re okay, they’ll make their 10 per cent, they’ll be okay. We'll make that available but we don't push that.

Actor: 10 per cent is not interesting. Sorry.

Stephen Macaw: Yeah. No, no, that’s what I’m saying. So, with that property deals, you know, that’s more of a yield stoc

k. So, we do a lot in - I’m-

Actor: Eventually? Sorry .... Property is to - there’s no better way to say it, it’s to hide the money. Okay? And we have a lot of properties around the world, no one, no one knows that we own it, no one will ever know I own it.

Stephen Macaw: Sure.

Actor: And that’s the way we wanna do same thing in Australia by the way.

Actor: It’s all of us because I’m overlooking but you know, it has to be a mutual responsibility that we don’t make a mistake that will blow on our face.

Scott Macaw: All right. On that, I know we want to go that route. I’m not sure if we want to go that route. But there are a couple of things that are potentially interesting on that route. One is HSBC which I …. before. I know that the HSBC results a week before they published every quarter.

Actor: Sorry?

Scott Macaw: I know the HSBC results a week before they publish every quarter.

Actor: Good connections.

Scott: Friends.

Actor: Okay, that’s interesting.

Stephen Macaw: I like this cause it’s all quiet, but I'm not actually not doing anything wrong, I’m finding good-quality companies...

Actor: That’s fine.

Stephen Macaw: -and I'm raising money. Money’s coming in and out.

Actor: That’s fine.

Stephen Macaw: And you're a good person and you’ve decided to support a fund manager in New Zealand...

Actor: It’s fine.

Stephen Macaw: -and you’re investing in high-quality straight investor Scott. The worst-case scenario...

Actor: The pretty straightforward.

Stephen Macaw: No one can or will ever get from there to there to there. But because, I’m not actually doing anything wrong. We’re finding high-quality businesses and raising money from different people. It’s just that you’re gonna get the best, you’re gonna see it earlier...

Actor: Yeah.

Stephen Macaw: And you're gonna get the best allocation and you're gonna only ... shown the best deals.

Actor: We’re gonna have the leading ...

Stephen Macaw: Do you- of course.

Scott Macaw: Yeah. And to be honest...

Actor: And to be with the main business.

Stephen Macaw: So, the only thing that we can be accused of is giving priority to my new best client.

Scott Macaw: Yeah.

Stephen Macaw: That’s it.

Actor: That’s fine.

Scott Macaw: And so, if there’s a conflict...

Actor:And nobody knows that you are a part of the new client.

Scott Macaw: No. that’s the...

Actor: That’s the whole idea.

Stephen Macaw: You know, I have nothing to do with it .. no one can ever put anything...

Actor: Yeah.

Scott Macaw: And that’s the only thing in that there and there will never be a bit of paper about, but the only thing is that, if- there’s nothing wrong with me as a financial advisor having a performance fee, that’s normal. But the strange bit is if I then take half my performance fee and say, ‘Steve his- he offered a deal.’

Actor: Do that, but here, not here.

Scott Macaw: Exactly. And that’s the...

Actor: That’s fine.

Scott Macaw: I think that’s the only bit. There will never be a piece of paper, there will never be in any- and that’s- it works because- that bit works because I'm outside of Australia, Steve’s in Australia. I'm moving or, you know. That works because of all the...

Actor: It will work because it is structured wisely.

Scott Macaw: Yeah.

Stephen Macaw: So, with the Chinese process, there’s two legs to it. There’s the CNCA approval which means that they’ve been down and visited the plant and they’ve approved that these products can be sold in China but online. The final stage is to get the final approval, of which there are 58 around the world and 13 are from Australia, which allows you to actually sell through a distribution channel out through the actual pharmacy in China.

Actor: Umm-hmm.

Stephen Macaw: And that’s what we know is coming. So, we can't say how, when or why it’s coming, but we know it’s coming. And I’ll show you in the notes, I....

Actor: Is that a known secret or not many people know it?

Stephen Macaw: He’s got, so, he’s fluent in Chinese, he’s been working up there for 20 years. And basically he knows before the Department of Agriculture knows. He’ll shown to me when he gets told stuff, which is, like, a month before the Department of Agriculture gets told. So, he knows when....

Actor: And once the Department of Agriculture’s been told, it’s out there in the public?

Stephen Macaw: So, that’s the thing, I know [laughing]. That’s why this works, ‘cause I know as we walk into it that the dairy thing, I know they’ve already got the Chinese approval, but it can’t be announced for three months. So, I can’t tell. I can’t go out to the Australian market and tell them that, but I can tell you that.

Actor: And they we buy it?

Stephen Macaw: So, but  because they know that, they don’t wanna take too much money yet, they only wanna do 10 million.

Actor: And they already IPO’ed?

Stephen Macaw: No, it’s pre-IPO.

Actor: It’s pre-IPO?

Stephen Macaw: Yeah. So, we’re gonna do some now, ten million, so we could do five of it, and I’ll keep five of that other people and then when it IPOs, we’re doing that on only 15 million. And when we IPO, we’ll IPO at 150, 200. So, we make....

Actor: So, you make twice?

Stephen Macaw: Three. Three times. Yeah.

Actor: No. Your profit, twice. If you buy now and then when you go....

Stephen Macaw: You buy now and then it goes....

Actor: -you go to the IPO....

Stephen Macaw: -into the IPO. Yeah.

Actor: If it’s a good deal, we’re not the only smart guys in the market. Everyone knows....

Stephen Macaw: No. We wanna share it a little.

Actor: Of course.

Stephen Macaw: Because then, it take the heat off. Part of that underwriting, is when it’s a big deal, we know very well and the other part would be, yeah, inside information, well, that’s a game ....

Actor: No, there’s no connection here. This is strictly no connection, here.

Stephen Macaw: Yes. So, when I know something’s happening, we can do that too. Until we probably need a trading and underwriting account and then we have investing in new things again.

Actor: I have a bit of experience with that, with good friends, only with good friends. I don’t trust anyone with that. I made over 100 per cent once, from the tip, I big game high-tech company and he called me. He said, ‘Buy now, we’re really under the market’, this was I don’t remember, there were really- I didn’t know. I haven’t heard of I knew the company, I didn’t know that they were in problems. In three, four months I made over 100 per cent, just like that, on nothing, nothing, telephone call. That’s the best man you can think.

Stephen Macaw: So, we see that all the time.

Actor: Sorry?

Stephen Macaw: We know when someone’s gonna get a big contract, we know when someone’s gonna do a deal. We know. So...

Actor: That, we can put, let’s say, one of the ... I don’t know how many, you know, they’re dupe, but you have to be careful. Not all the deals are deals like that.

Stephen Macaw: Well because, this thing only borrows three things a year, and they all go up 300 per cent. So, we got ......

Actor: That’s a problem.

Scott Macaw: Yeah.

Actor: That’s a problem.

Stephen Macaw: So, we have to...

Stephen Macaw: We have to lose some.

Stephen Macaw: We don’t have to lose some, but that has to buy in and out of a few things. Other things that we know the companies that have...

Stephen Macaw: So, on the 23rd of September, we’re taking probably 15 or 20 investors down from Sydney and Melbourne out to see those guys and show them around. So, what ideally what we’d do, if you guys are interested, we’d move ahead of that, we’d be a week ahead, and basically just say that we’ve already got some cornerstone interests, and we wont disclose the party. We'll just say we have some cornerstone interests so a big chunk of it is already gone. And that’s how we do it.

Actor: Not all of it?

Stephen Macaw: No. Cause if we take all of it, then we’re stuck into the float. We wanna have you plus I'd like the four or five best institutions in Australia.

Actor: Something that will look natural.

Stephen Macaw: Yeah. And when it goes into the float, they want to buy more. You don't want to be the only one holding it. So, this, I’ll just take you through this.

Scott Macaw: Timing of that- you think?

Stephen Macaw: So, the 23rd of September we’re taking those instos.

Actor: So, we have to be at least a week before.

Scott Macaw: So, 15 September.

Actor: Less than a month.

Stephen Macaw: Yeah. Less than a month to do it. But we can send you a lot more information. But these are the ones-- I mean, we’re gonna do a huge amount of work between now and then. I don’t want you to replicate all the work, it’s more, if I find a problem, I’ll let you know, cause that’s the whole idea of this partnership.

Actor: Umm-hmm.

Stephen Macaw: You know, I'm treating this like it’s my money. Do you know what I mean? I wouldn’t.

Actor: Partnership.

Stephen Macaw: Yeah. Exactly. But we make all those other fuckers’ money all the time, so, I really want to make some for ourselves.

Actor: He likes it. I think he likes it. I'm 100.

Scott Macaw: Yeah! [Laughing]

Actor: Okay? Don’t go into situations that can bite you in the ass later on down the road.

Stephen Macaw: Yeah, and that’s my point, that with all of these, because I’m actually looking after my client, my job is to get them the money, and so, I’ll be doing my job properly, and I also want to have high-quality people putting their money in that aren’t going to just rip it out one day later. So as long as I’m doing…

Actor: That’s not investing.

Stephen Macaw: As long as I’m doing that, and I’m actually looking after my client properly, and then I can look after you by showing it to you much earlier. Making sure you only get the best deals…

Actor: That’s what I mean.

Stephen Macaw: ...best deals. and putting you in for the right amount of capital, relative to what’s around you to get the balance from. That’s how…to me, that’s not letting my client down, that’s doing one…

Actor: No, no, I agree. Everyone is happy.