Dr Kgosi Letlape: Head of the HPCSA “This is our George Floyd moment” interview.
Take the time to listen to this video/interview.
The HPCSA governs all healthcare professionals within South Africa. This interview was given after one of the accused doctors in the #dropandwait petition was murdered and the other doctor has gone into hiding.
Summary notes and additional sources:
Dr Fundile Nyati (FN) interviews Dr Kgosi Letlape (KL) the current Head of the HPCSA.
Discussions relating to:
The late Dr Abdullay Munshi (AM)
Professor Peter Beale (PB)
National Prosecuting agency (NPA)
Department of health (DOH)
(Additional sources/explanations in the (brackets)
Some quick notes done whilst going through the 90min interview
Dr KL at 6 minutes
The George Floyd moment for doctors.
The hpcsa only got the case after the media frenzy.
He talks about the Private Hospital’s role and authority in the case relating to the doctors and patients loss.
The Private hospital was not accountable to anyone.
The inquest docket needed to open.
(Not according to the recent NPA statement?)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157962936418409/
No statement was filed by the private hospital
Clear lawlessness
Betrayal from the private hospital that the two doctors worked as independent practitioners within.
(The private hospital basically was duty bound to provide the equipment and staff for the two doctors. If the surgeon, anesthesiologist and hospital, all bill separately and treat the patient, the hospital did not have the right to suspend the doctors as they where also party to the case, hence their actions added “fuel to the flames”).
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157161870093409/
At 12 minutes
Dr KL:
THERE IS A GAP WITH THE REGULATING BODY AND THE PRIVATE HOSPITAL. The hospital does not answer to the HPCSA and can act in complete autonomy.
(Remember the media felt because the hospital suspended the two doctors they’ll must be guilty.
The Up and down story in the podcast made this argument.)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157920415443409/
16 minutes:
The role of the hpcsa and hospital’s service role in the patients complications:
When there are three parties involved.
If One party (Private Hosptial) was a player and referee then they can cover up their problems.
The hospital is responsible for the service.
(They to date have not answered for their role or service of the patient.)
18 minutes
Dr FN
Talks of informed consent by the hospital.
All patients must sign that They do not hold the hospital liable if complications occur in their facility.
(How good and what is the point of taking an informed consent?)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157161750703409/
20minutes:
Dr KL:
MEDICAL INQUEST IS AUTOMATIC NOT AN OPTION.
The is a strict law.
Death in relation to medical procedure must have an inquest.
(Not according to recent NPA statement)
Inquest role:
https://sasaapi.sasaweb.com/Newsletters/Document/DRLLasersohnCommenttoEnCA_17.12.2019-WA0000_637121910533639368.m4a
Dr KL
The lack of equipment ?
He talks about the inquest act?
Unethical for the Hospital to suspend another party if they all need to be be equally investigated and respond to the loss of life.
The authorities ignored the inquest.
Doctors arrested and charged before the inquest.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157215010063409/
24minutes
Dr KL
Hpcsa wrote a letter of serious concerns and sought explanations and assistance from the:
NPA director
DOH
Police commissioner
Minster of health
In December 2019.
(Nearly one year ago)
Acknowledged receipt and NO response to date.
They are going keep trying until someone responds to their concerns.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157172821028409/
26 minutes:
The HPCSA enquiry process
If the matter is being reported
The suspension hearing from the hpcsa.
Expert reports are reviewed.
Sometimes the HPCSA suspended until the matter is heard, if they have reviewed the initial evidence but It is not an absolute, they still have to allow the doctor to obtain his evidence and make his case.
(Prof Beale was in this process after he was initially temporary suspended by HPCSA based on initial evidence provided in the complaint).
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157957974433409/
29 minutes
The reports hit the media first and the doctors where suspended by the hospital first then the hpcsa got the report.
(The HPCSA got the complaints AFTER the MEDIA had already openly reported the case, criminal NPA charges and PRIVATE hospital suspension.)
The need to fully investigate the case will take time.....
Experts etc.
Both doctors are treated separately.
(The NPA is treated both PB and AM as a single entity.)
The police did not open an inquest docket before the criminal charges.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157965377608409/
32.30 minutes
Any patient can open a charge if they are unhappy, it this law process goes ahead.
Hpcsa presumed:
The rule of law will be followed by the NPA.
This was already a Public spectacle, the state needed and should haves to followed it properly.
(They continues to push ahead a rapid pace towards criminal charges, despite the outcry from the HPCSA, SAMA and MEDICAL FRATERNITY. #dropitandwait)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157170593918409/
34 minutes
Dr FN
Dr KL
The letters where send for response in December 2020.
The HPCSA informed the government of the major problems with the normal medical negligence procedures not being followed.
NO response from anyone in the government.
The matter was discussed with the MINISTER OF HEALTH in December 2020, he was aware.
#BeforeItIsTooLate
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157960336228409/
36 minutes:
AM was not suspended based on other experts at the Hpcsa hearing and investigations.
The Hpcsa can not speed up process, it require time to get, experts, notes and service provider accounts.
(Remember the private hospital was not cooperating with the HPCSA and the matter had been criminalized by the NPA, before the HPCSA had even started their own hearings.)
38minutes
The Private hospital group refused to give the hpcsa their hospital records
40 minutes
KL:
They all should have left the hpcsa to do their jobs
41 minutes
KL:
The prelim for AM was being prepared
43 minutes
NPA treated them like criminals
The matter was moved to November 2020
PB and AB asked the HPCSA to please step in again, the criminal case was moving forward.
(despite the concerns voiced by all medical fraternities)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157966884053409/
44 minutes
KL:
The NPA, Police commissioner and the three minsters have been informed AGAIN of the HPCSA’s concerns in a second letter this week (Sept 2020).
The president office has been asked to step in as well. The NPA and Police commissione has acknowledged receipt.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157963070058409/
47 minutes
KL
Family has lost a child and it is our duty to find those answers. (HPCSA’s first priority)
We live in a lawless society devoid of ethics
We have been making this point since December.
When the NPA CRIMINALIZED THE MATTER THEY PUT ALL DOCTORS AT RISK.
KL talks of the assault at Shifa Hospital in Durban in Jan 2020.
(https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157364105068409/
The state is putting targets on doctors backs by criminalizing the matter.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157967553498409/
It would be disingenuous to think it is not related.
When the MEDIA and NPA criminalize the profession EVEN IF there is provisions we have to deal with the matter.
50 minutes
Lawyers have targeted the profession.
FN talks about the raf funds dropping, so now their had an increase in direct negligence claims.
Did the lawyers not know about the inquest act?
It is putting patients and doctors at harm
Only the lawyers will benefit.
(If this is way doctors will be prosecuted from now then they must change the law and print out the guidelines so we know where we stand and how we need to practise going forward.)
53 Minutes
No fault compensation system needs to be in place.
It should not be only the Rich to get answers.
There is no engaging system in this healthcare system or that the law provides for patients.
Lawyer are a non essential liability in the budget of the doh. We need a no fault system.
(Early arbitration, mediation and communication)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10154775560763409/
56 minutes
Doctors are leaving and we will leave.
What is impact to the practice of medicine going forward?
KL this can happen to me.
We must know this can happen to any of us.
(If this is how doctors will be treated by the law and police then make it proper record and provide the guidelines so we can work within your “law”.)
He talks of the pandemic and we are still getting exposed to be murdered.
(We have been going to work risking our lives and we still do not know where we stand with the law and prosecutors.)
What the public did to AM can happen to any of us.
There is no way I can talk someone down to leave this Country.
57 minutes
Doctors are fighting for their profession, patients and ourselves.
There needs to be acknowledgement by the NPA and police. They must commit and confirm it will never happen again.
I have one colleague dying on my watch....I will not rest until there is justice.
The state we serve does not protect us.
The state will not create a chamber for healthcare workers to discuss, bargain and communicate.
(The state has done this for engineers, lawyers, judges and pilots yet healthcare workers? Doctors strike 2009.)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10154835826833409/
We need to be appreciated by the government and public, we serve and trust.
61 minutes
We need guidelines or acknowledgement that this is how we will be treated, going forward.
(It will dictate how we as doctors treat specific cases and patients.)
62 minutes
KL
It is not about running way from the county we serve.
I was born here but I will not let my life be cheapened (trying to do my job).
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157961534833409/
63 minutes
Doctors must know and find their own body HPCSA rather than letting the government fund it.
The Hpcsa first duty to protect the patients first then guide the doctors to do that. It must be devoid of government control and funding.
(The role of the HPCSA roadshows and doctors need to understand why we must fund it.)
65 minutes
Lawyers have targeted the medical profession
They have torn open the health budgets from all provinces.
(The health budgets are now mostly paying lawyers, some have syndicates working within the DOH helping them lose files and makes the cases difficult to defend.)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10154779895693409/
66 minutes
This is our George Floyd moment.
This is to honor Dr Munshi
The only Thing of value is to keep our profession clear, we must continue to keep our patients first.
Closing statement to the professional and to the public:
Restraints of incumbency.
In a few days I will not be restrained by the hpcsa.
KL there is a lot more that needs to be done to save our profession.
70 minutes.
We need to know as the doctor if the police commissioner and npa head is going to treat us like criminals. (We need the new guidelines).
Change the law if you want I do it... (but let us know so we can change our practise for YOU!)
72 minutes
To the public:
The public needs to read all the facts.
Hpcsa guides the profession.
The public must engage and read ALL the facts.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157963182593409/
About the HPCSA:
There is still needs to be room for improvement.
It is too legal and needs to more peer review.
We must remove the lawyers from the system.
(It must be patients and doctors first, so they get the answers and doctors learn to be better.)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/92643598408/permalink/10157621827973409/
77 minutes
The NHI can’t come into place if there is no national competence.
A No fault compensation system
Programs on How to avoid future complications.
Need to remove the millions being lost etc etc.
It has to be the law of the country.
These are the rules for the health care system for both doctors,patients and South Africa.
The last few minutes is very important for every doctor in this country to hear. (Sa Doctors Unite)