Tena koe Josie, a tena koutou katoa,
Firstly, I would like to address your response to this petition.
You have publicly stated that you are “100% committed to the development of children and young people” yet despite conclusive evidence to the contrary you have also repeatedly said that you “do not see how any learning and adventure is being achieved for Lily” and that “there is no learning / developmental / recreational benefit to Lily” (both quoted verbatim from your initial email to me dated Saturday 12th June 2021). My daughter has begun to develop social, emotional, and physical skills that are far beyond her age simply because she has been in the YMCA Adventure Centre since she was 5 days old. She has proved time and time again, that she is learning and adventuring through being a part of the climbing community and it is our belief that taking that community away from her will severely impact her growth and development.
In your response, you have also said that you “applaud [the staff’s] efforts to date to enable this family to continue to come to the centre” – what efforts are you referring to? The staff at the YMCA Adventure Centre have had to do absolutely nothing over and above their standard duties to enable our family to continue to climb, or to continue to contribute as coaches to the next generation of climbers. In fact, prior to this, the only interaction we had had with the staff regarding our daughter being in the YMCA Adventure Centre was when we found out that I was pregnant in October 2019. Your staff knew that we were pregnant BEFORE our own families did, because from the very start we have wanted to do this correctly and follow relevant policies. At that point we were told that I was welcome to continue in my volunteer coaching role, and the staff stated that I would be entirely responsible for the safety of my own child whilst we were in the facility – a condition that I wholeheartedly agreed to, and one that I believe is more than fair. We have never expected the staff, nor have they ever needed, to take any responsibility for our daughter.
The sign off that you used in your response to this petition was that “we are always learning and improving and welcome your feedback via email” – I have sent you numerous emails regarding this issue before I made this public, including emailing both yourself and your EA to request a face-to-face meeting to discuss this new policy. I was offered a meeting in multiple emails by yourself, yet when I went to arrange one with your EA I was given an option weeks in the future and have heard nothing back since. If you truly were “keen to hear my thoughts on this and [to] of course consider them” (again a verbatim quote from your initial email to me on Saturday 12th June 2021) then surely a face-to-face meeting would be a priority, rather than an afterthought. It is our family, and our community who are losing the most because of your new policy.
Secondly, I would like to follow up from some of the statements made in the original petition.
In the email which you sent to me on Thursday 17th June 2021, you stated that you “have checked with other climbing centres and have yet to find anyone who allows children under 5 in their climbing arenas” (quoted verbatim from the aforementioned email). I have personally emailed as many New Zealand climbing facilities as I could locate contact information for, and a few overseas facilities, and none of them have heard from you. Not only have they not heard from you, but I have also received an outpouring of support for the situation that you have put our family in, including the suggestion to start this petition. Furthermore, I have received numerous photos of other infants and under 5s in climbing facilities around New Zealand, both as climbers and spectators.
Following on from that point, you said in your email to me on Monday 14th June 2021 that “in the event that your Lily is actually climbing, this is obviously not a problem” (quoted verbatim from the aforementioned email). I took you at your word, and on the following day Lily was climbing with her own designated belayer. You then spun a complete 180 and changed your policy to say that “you will not be able to have Lily in the main arena until she is 5” (quoted verbatim from your email on Thursday 17th June 2021). You gave our family an option to continue to maintain our commitments to our climbers, and three days later you pulled the rug out from underneath us again.
We have followed every policy and procedure that has been asked of us, until you implemented this policy. You have blatantly lied to us about how you have decided upon this policy – none of the climbing centres that I have spoken to have heard from you, including other YMCA run facilities. The incident report, that was created over 2 weeks after the initial incident, was created by someone who I have never met or spoken to, and who has recorded several things inaccurately within said report.
I have had many climbing facility managers and owners respond to the email that I sent them, on Friday 18th June 2021, to see if you had indeed reached out to “other climbing centres”, responses thus far have included –
“As for the CEO’s email, no one has contacted us …”
“I have had a mother belay her 3-year-old with her 6-month-old strapped in a Baby Bjorn on a weekly basis”
“I do find this shocking that they would ban a certain demographic when the whole outdoor industry (worldwide) is working hard to be more inclusive”
“Getting kids off screens and being active should be everyone’s goal and what better way than to start them young so it’s just a normal part of life”
“Our policy is that parents need to have full supervision of their children at our wall, whatever their age”
“Incidentally, my children attend geckos and commented that they enjoy seeing your daughter at the gym, where she is a part of the club and is very well managed by both of you”
“I would say that yes we absolutely allow children under the age of 5 into our gym”
“We allow children to climb with their parents (under their parents management) from the point they can safely fit into a harness”
“[Climbing from a young age] can help to build coordination, motor skills and understanding of risk”
“We happily welcome children of all ages into our arena”
“The YMCA would be remiss to lose a volunteer coach because of an out-of-date rule, especially if the kids prefer to have [your daughter] around”
“I am very sorry to hear that you have been treated this way”
“We regularly get children, as customers, that are younger than 5 to our gym”
“As per the YMCA website ‘There is no minimum age to climb’”
“We allow children of any age to come into the gym and haven’t found any issues with it so far”
“We have parents with young children who will come climbing and leave their children, in their cot, close by and haven’t had any issues with this thus far”
“We do allow young children under 5 in our facility”
“You have quite a conundrum there and I understand your desires. A climbing community is a very warm and inclusive place where it would be great to have a child grow up”
“It sounds like your child is well adapted to the social arena”
“Any age that fits a harness can go on top rope”
“It would be great to have more mum’s in the climbing community (they tend to disappear in my experience)”
Having spoken to other climbers around the country through social media, and the sharing of this petition, we have had support for our situation flood in from all directions, responses have included –
“I used to run the Taupo wall and my policy was essentially the same with babies as it was with dogs … so long as they’re under control and not causing an issue […] then there is no problem with it. It’s great to get them started young and while we haven’t yet tried to get [our son] on a rope he’s certainly happy climbing” – (attached some photos of his son in a climbing facility)
“To all the #moms and #dads in and around #tauranga: We know how hard it is to keep the #balance between #workandparenting and looking after yourself. We are a #childfriendlygym. We offer a #clipnclimb area for #youngclimbers and our #rockon side for #bravkids! If you have a #baby / #toddler you can do the same as our #staffmember Rebecca! She #boulders while her sweet #futureclimbing boy sleeps or giggles! #selfcare ...” – Rocktopia, Mount Maunganui Instagram post dated May 27th 2021 (shared by Brad Baillie on my Facebook post and linked in this update)
“Both my kids went to a bouldering gym at 1. The circuit in Portland, OR, USA has a dedicated kids area. Here in Qt I routinely take my 3 (now 4) year-old bouldering and top roping. My 6-year-old participated in their after school program. Honestly they do more dangerous stuff every day in the playground than the climbing gym” –
“Signed. My son and myself training in the YMCA Invercargill” – (attached a photo of a young infant in a bouldering arena with the father climbing)
“Please support my friend in her venture with her daughter. No one should have to choose between her child and her passion they should be able to be all one and the same for Lily to be with and learn with her mum and second family”
“Another classic example of how women get reprimanded for being Mums who work. As long as lovely Lily is fully supervised (which I know she is), I don’t see why she shouldn’t be allowed at the YMCA while her mum works”
“Hey team, if you can spare a minute to sign this petition, myself and this family would greatly appreciate it! Lily is a gorgeous little girl who comes from a family of dedicated climbers and I have personally seen her in the gym – a place she loves. She deserves to be there! Many thanks in advance.”
“Just as I have been hoping to get O into full on climbing this happens …”
“What I find most frustrating about this situation is that this family have followed every rule laid out and each time the bar has been moved again. I have taken [my son] here a couple of times and saw huge growth in his focus and movement. It is a great environment for young children to learn and I really want children like Lily and [my son] to benefit from it. Please consider taking a moment to read and sign”
“So you are a volunteer coach giving up your free time you could be spending with your daughter to coach other people’s children? I would think under these circumstances they would be bending over backwards to support you! They aren’t going to have many volunteers left if they treat them this way & then ultimately the kids miss out.”
“Your daughter is beautiful. My little one is a very active 6-month-old bub and I’d love for her to start climbing as early as she’d like. I think she’d enjoy it.”
“Huh? Our climbing gym in New Plymouth let’s under 5s in. Both my kids started going at around 3. They do kids specific games and everything. One of the instructors took his daughter very young and she is a great climber now”
The signatures and comments on this petition alone should be enough for you to see how much this has already made an impact on the climbing community. We are asking you to reconsider your new policy, and to follow through on your offer to sit down with us to discuss the implementation of this policy with the people that it affects the most.
The Atkinson Whanau