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Ban Pokemon Stadium

This petition had 47 supporters


Pokemon Stadium has some controversy in the Melee community. Some say it is their least favorite stage, others want it outright banned from competitive play. Many people I have spoken with would accept and like the idea of having Pokemon Stadium banned. The reasons are as follows: Low ceiling which most heavily benefits Fox, as his vertical KO potential is already the best in the game with his Jump Cancel upsmash, up-throw up air combos that are particularly harsh on floaties like Peach, Marth, Jigglypuff, Ice Climbers (as if they need an excuse, but I digress), Samus, etc. The list goes on. Another major issue with Pokemon Stadium is that its transformations almost defy tournament-legal stages rule. Nearly every single transformation has unbalanced and boring flow to its design. Often times, players will just wait the transformation out to be returned to it's normal state with two platforms. Going back to the Fox favoritism this stage has, is that on two of the three transformations, a Fox player (given the technical ability) can infinitely shine combo anyone if they are in a certain position of the stage, and by Fox's nature, after the opponent has reached a certain percentage, the Fox player could just simply upsmash out of shine hitstun to finish them off. Adding more to this idea, there is more than one position on the stage during the fire transition where the Fox could infinitely shine combo his opponent. There's the tree on the left side, where you can be infinitely shined underneath it, and in between the branches, and also on the post in the middle of the transformation, in which the Fox can infinite shine you there as well. The same can be said for the Rock transformation, where in the middle pit of the stage, you can be shined repeatedly, to the Fox player's discretion.
Moving onto further unbalances, the Rock transformation not only has bugs and collision issues, but the high rock on the left side of the stage provides a ridiculous amount of favoritism to characters with a decent vertical juggling tool. For example, Marth's up throw, his up tilt, even his tipper up air can kill off this rock. This also goes for Fox and Falco's up tilt, Jigglypuff's up tilt. The list goes on and on. If your opponent is even medium percent (give or take some percent given the character's weight), you can easily get a kill off just by camping this rock. Another issue with the same rock is that is almost entirely blocks vision to it's left side. If both characters are fighting it out for the ledge, most of the time, its a crap shoot because neither character can see one another, you can only see shields. Also, with the wall being as close as it is to the ledge, it drastically favors characters that have quick, short range options that can bounce the opponent off the wall, and thusly, off the stage. Combined with the fact that you can hardly see either character when fighting down there, its extremely unreasonable for this to be considered tournament legal. Last note on the rock transformation: the right ledge and surrounding area has a collision issue that prevents smooth wavedash or rolling through it. Countless times I've seen stocks wiped away because of unnecessary jank with this issue. Next, I'll talk about the water transformation. This is the most balanced of the three transformations on this stage. Its two platforms are similar to Fountain of Dream's. The biggest issue with this stage is the dock on the left side and the windmill above it. The dock provides a high ground that can both be a benefit and detriment to nearly any character. I'm sure there has been plenty of times where a Marth was lining up a tipper f-smash or trying to engage neutral with a downtilt, only for the other person to be able to crouch under it or have the angle be off just enough to miss their intended target. This kind of disadvantage is nearly universal across all characters, as they all require some degree of proper spacing. The dock with its uneven angles and odd positioning removes the player's skill to hit a certain hitbox at a given angle or timing. The windmill is a huge physics disaster. Sometimes when you hit someone off the windmill (seemingly prevalent with amsah-teching) you would almost teleport completely off the stage. Four giant floating platforms spinning clockwise can pose a serious physics issue with a lot of the tech advancements the Melee community has found.
I'm sure some of you are thinking that removing this stage would pose an issue to striking in a best of three set. Since pokemon is a counter-pick stage, you can not pick it for round 1 of the set. However, that's where some jank meta comes in. Suppose you are a Marth player, and win first round on Final Destination. The Fox will counterpick you to Pokemon Stadium. Of course, we all know why. It favors him extremely well, unlike any other character. So even in the stage striking and picking meta, a competent Fox player would counter pick a floaty character to this stage for a much easier win.
This stage is an anomaly that doesn't reflect the same balances as other stages with environmental variables like FoD, Dreamland, or Yoshi's Story. None of those stages impact the outcome of a game nearly as much as Pokemon Stadium does. The most obvious and most obstructive variable of the three would be the floating shy guys on Yoshi's Story, which does not favor any character specifically, it is a nuisance to nearly anyone on that stage.
I personally do not mind that Pokemon Stadium has a low ceiling or tricky ledges that the camera blocks the view of the character with. My issue with this stage is that the avenues of which those options are achieved is so ridiculously easy and mundane that they don't even come close to representing the same values that we hold other tournament legal stages to.

I ask the Melee community, the elites and professionals of the community to please give this petition consideration. There are many people who think that banning this stage from being tournament legal would be better for the competitive community as a whole. This stage should not be played in any form of competitive singles, best of three, or best of five. My intention behind this petition was directed at singles Melee, and not Doubles. Even so, I think a lot of my points still stand quite well in favor for banning this stage in doubles as well. If you have read this far, thank you for your time. I hope we can work together to remove this stage from tournament play indefinitely.



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