Petition update

The sangat’s reply to a supporter of Joginder

Guru Nanak Gurudwara (Leics) Sangat

Jul 26, 2016 — A YouTube user has stated the following, in support of Joginder:

“I dont know the in's and out's of this particular case regarding this guy called joginder singh. He clearly hasn't had his say yet or right to reply yet before you publicly shamed and defamed him worldwide. So I would appreciate if you could get him to clarify his actions and his rationale.

1) However the main point is that you have not addressed what's the procedure of drunk or mentally unstable homeless people who may have personal hygiene issues coming into guru's house and some without covering their head and taking off shoes. ....perhaps this has been experience of joginder singh and other sewadars. And therefore from the bad experiences of other homeless people or this particular woman who has misbehaved in the past he doesnt want to serve her. Then he is well within his rights to deny her food, its not goverment service its a Sikh community funded free kitchen for those who are greateful, humble and respectful to the Sikhs and their guru's house.

2) There has been a recent spike in beadhi incidents at gurdwara not just in UK but across the world where non-sikhs have come wondering in and attacked guru ji himself out of racist abti-sikh behaviour or mental issues or drunkness. In uk gurdwara's have been robbed and thrashed by non-sikhs coming in thinking Sikhs are weak they dont protect their places of worship its time to have a free rein and take them for the joke and soft touch they have now become? So tell us how are you going to stop incidents of beadhi like this by non-sikhs? Sometimes Drunk punjabi men of Sikh heritage try to come in gurdwara and they get shown the exit door because we know how to deal with "our own". How would you deal with non-Sikhs abusing Sikhs and Guru's house?”


HERE IS THE SANGAT’S RESPONSE:
(The word “You” refers to the person who supports Joginder)


You have made the following points:

“I dont know the in's and out's of this particular case regarding this guy called joginder singh. He clearly hasn't had his say yet or right to reply yet before you publicly shamed and defamed him worldwide. So I would appreciate if you could get him to clarify his actions and his rationale”.

Before uploading a video that attempts to support Joginder and the committee, please try to understand the “ins and outs”, otherwise you’ll continue to create half-baked comments.

Please read the petition page and all posts in full, so that you understand the “ins and outs”. Here’s the link:

https://www.change.org/p/leicester-sikhs-ban-racist-joginder-singh-from-guru-nanak-temple-leics-for-refusing-langar-to-non-sikhs

Firstly, why is the onus on us the sangat of the Gurudwara to get Joginder to clarify his actions?

Either Joginder or the committee need to clarify Joginder’s position, which they have BOTH already done.

You wrongly claim that Joginder hasn’t “had his say yet or right to reply yet”

PLEASE WATCH THE VIDEO.

Joginder verbally clarified why he refused to serve the sober White woman AT the time of the incident at 1:07 minutes (so what are you talking about?).

He said that he refused to serve her because she was carrying a “meat walla box”, which is implausible, because the box he refers to was topped with langar food, as can be seen in the video (An empty transparent box could not have been a meat walla box. Why did he lie, when the person recording the video gave him a chance to clarify his actions?).

JOGINDER LIES TWICE IN THAT VIDEO.

The second lie is about it being time to close the kitchen and clean up, which it couldn’t have been as samapti can be heard taking place in the background of the video, it was only 8:10pm and other sevadaars could be seen working in the background.

AT THE TIME OF THE RECORDING, Joginder DIDN’T say I refused to serve her because:
a. She was drunk
b. Of her hygiene issues
c. She is mentally unstable etc

Your words suggest that Joginder MAY have refused her because of reasons a-c above. Why didn’t Joginder say this AT the time of the incident? Had he said this at the time of the incident, we WOULDN’T have uploaded the video onto YouTube, as we’d have given him the benefit of doubt on that occasion, DESPITE the fact that he has refused food to eligible Non-Sikhs over a 1.5-year period, as witnessed by many sangat members AND committee members; as discussed in our online petition, which you haven’t seen.

If you read the petition posts, even a committee member has admitted, “We’ve told Joginder to stop doing this but he doesn’t listen to us” If he doesn’t listen, then get rid of him for doing beadbi of langar (serious Sikh offence/anti-Sikh behaviour), which is what the petition is all about.

Moreover, the Gurudwara committee has ALSO spoken on the behalf of Joginder, in their weak and mostly irrelevant public statement, in which they said that she was refused food because she was “subject to prior warnings”, which is CONTRADICTED by Joginder’s words in the video, as he clearly states that he refused food to her because she was carrying a “meat walla box”.

Both Joginder and the committee contradict each other. Please call the committee on 0116 251 7460 and ask them to explain this paradox, as we can’t talk on their behalf.

Also, please read the following article, which discusses the fact that the SAME homeless White woman was served langar on Sunday 24th July 2016, in the presence of 2 committee members AND Joginder. Here’s the link:

https://www.change.org/p/leicester-sikhs-ban-racist-joginder-singh-from-guru-nanak-temple-leics-for-refusing-langar-to-non-sikhs/u/17381672

Also, we have fully rebutted the committee’s statement on the following link, if you haven’t already seen that:

https://www.change.org/p/leicester-sikhs-ban-racist-joginder-singh-from-guru-nanak-temple-leics-for-refusing-langar-to-non-sikhs/u/17290709

Given that Joginder and the committee have BOTH clarified Joginder’s actions and rationale, why are you saying that they should be given an opportunity?

Do you want them to have another opportunity to change their responses to make them more believable, after we have rebutted their original statements on this matter?

If Joginder lied twice AT the time of the incident, how can we trust that he’ll tell the truth now, over 3 weeks later? He has publically destroyed his own credibility by lying twice, lowering shutters and hiding in the kitchen storage room.

You say “He clearly hasn't had his say yet or right to reply yet before you publicly shamed and defamed him worldwide”:

You have to understand that this wasn’t a one-off incident, which we captured on video and uploaded the next day, without thinking twice. That would be an unfair thing to do to anyone.

Joginder has been refusing food to eligible Non-Sikhs for OVER 1.5-years. You can check that the Special Delivery letter was delivered on 5th April 2016 [Royal Mail tracking number is on our petition page], which the committee ignored.

You can see that we started the online petition on 23rd April 2016, which the committee has ignored to date, even though it has over 300 supporters.

AFTER all of the above, on 1st July 2016, Joginder still had the audacity to call that sober White woman a “dirty woman”, tell her that he doesn’t respect her and make her cry at a Gurudwara of all places.

Doesn’t this bother you, as a Sikh? What respect should we show to a person who fearlessly does beadbi of langar, months after a petition against him was started?

If the committee ignores the sangat’s verbal complaints, letter and online petition over a 1.5 year period and if Joginder is caught in the act, why shouldn’t we use social media to show the truth of how langar is being wrongly denied to eligible Non-Sikhs because of the racist Joginder and the shameless committee? If we didn’t share the video, how would people gain an insight into the disturbing scenes that we have to put up with every week?

Think about it, the eligible White, Black and Hindu people Joginder refuses to serve and/or insults don’t know his name. However, as they enter the Gurudwara they can clearly see a photo of Guru Nanak Sahib and a huge sign saying “Guru Nanak Gurdwara”.

Who gets defamed because of Joginder’s racist actions? Our Gurudwara, our Guru’s name, the institution of langar and the Sikh community. This is unacceptable to the sangat and Sikhs across the world. It should be unacceptable to you, if you’re a true Sikh.

If Joginder is on a mission to defame our Gurus and the institution of langar, why shouldn’t we defame him worldwide for doing beadbi of langar and for defaming our Guru’s name? How dare he malign our Guru’s name? People who do beadbi of Guru Sahib’s Saroop in India are also defamed worldwide for this most serious offence, why should Joginder be given special treatment? 1.5-years is a long enough time to “Pack it in”, wouldn’t you say?

You say:

“1) However the main point is that you have not addressed what's the procedure of drunk or mentally unstable homeless people who may have personal hygiene issues coming into guru's house and some without covering their head and taking off shoes. ....perhaps this has been experience of joginder singh and other sewadars”. And therefore from the bad experiences of other homeless people or this particular woman who has misbehaved in the past he doesnt want to serve her. Then he is well within his rights to deny her food, its not goverment service its a Sikh community funded free kitchen for those who are greateful, humble and respectful to the Sikhs and their guru's house.”

Actually, you’re the one who has missed the MAIN point.

If Joginder denied her food BECAUSE of her (a) being drunk, (b) being unstable, (c) personal hygiene, (d) head being uncovered, (e) shoes being on, WHY DIDN’T HE SAY THIS WHEN HE WAS QUIZZED DURING THE VIDEO?

You are the one who has missed the MAIN point.

EVEN if this woman had her head uncovered and shoes on, when the other Sikh lady had ALREADY served her, what gave Joginder the right to (a) call her a “dirty woman, (b) tell her that he doesn’t respect her and (c) make her cry, as witnessed by many sangat members?

If Joginder has had bad experiences with other homeless people and/or this woman, why would he do a-c in preceding paragraph?

That’s disgusting behaviour, which the Sikh Gurus would never accept from a langaria, or do you disagree? The Gurus would have said, if she’s not eligible for langar, ask her to leave, don’t you dare do a-c (above) at our house (Guru’s Ghar).

Would you say that Joginder was well within his rights to (a) call her a “dirty woman, (b) tell her that he doesn’t respect her and (c) make her cry, when she had already been served by someone else AND she was clearly sober on THAT occasion?

You say:
“its not goverment service its a Sikh community funded free kitchen for those who are greateful, humble and respectful to the Sikhs and their guru's house.”

Guess what?

When the sober White woman said “Thank you” at 1.35 minutes, she WAS being GRATEFUL.

When Joginder called her a “dirty woman”, by saying that she’s dirty because she sleeps on the streets, she WAS being HUMBLE. Many sangat members, including the person who recorded the video, witnessed this.

When the sober White woman said “I respect this place!” before the video ends (1.46 minutes), she WAS being RESPECTFUL.

So, what are you talking about?

You say:
“2) There has been a recent spike in beadhi incidents at gurdwara not just in UK but across the world where non-sikhs have come wondering in and attacked guru ji himself out of racist abti-sikh behaviour or mental issues or drunkness. In uk gurdwara's have been robbed and thrashed by non-sikhs coming in thinking Sikhs are weak they dont protect their places of worship its time to have a free rein and take them for the joke and soft touch they have now become?”

How is this related to what Joginder has been doing at our Gurudwara for over 1.5 years?

As Sikhs, shouldn’t we first focus on cleaning up the mess made by a non-baptised Sikh like Joginder at OUR Gurudwara, BEFORE we think about tackling the above-mentioned issues?

Just because the above has happened at Gurudwaras across the UK, does that give Joginder the right to refuse food to eligible Non-Sikhs? Is he refusing to serve Non-Sikhs out of revenge?

The above-mentioned serious issues need to be addressed, case-by-case, when they arise, by the committees of affected Gurudwaras and the local Police. How can we the sangat of Guru Nanak Gurudwara (Leicester) solve such issues on a national and international level?

Instead of talking about beadbi on a global scale that you and I have little control over, why aren’t you interested in stopping the beadbi of langar taking place at OUR Gurudwara, which we have more control over?

Wouldn’t it be wiser to focus on stopping the beadbi of langar by a Sikh called Joginder Singh by SIMPLY removing him from the kitchen, instead of tackling global scale beadbi caused by unknown Non-Sikhs?

You say:
“So tell us how are you going to stop incidents of beadhi like this by non-sikhs? Sometimes Drunk punjabi men of Sikh heritage try to come in gurdwara and they get shown the exit door because we know how to deal with "our own". How would you deal with non-Sikhs abusing Sikhs and Guru's house?”

Deal with Sikhs and Non-Sikhs in the EXACT same way.

Ineligible Non-Sikhs should be shown the door JUST LIKE ineligible Sikhs.

Likewise, eligible Non-Sikhs should be served langar JUST LIKE eligible Sikhs.

Deal with Non-Sikhs as you deal with your own (Sikhs).

It’s as simple as that.

Please see the light and sign our petition to stop beadbi of langar at our Gurudwara.

https://www.change.org/p/leicester-sikhs-ban-racist-joginder-singh-from-guru-nanak-temple-leics-for-refusing-langar-to-non-sikhs

If you have any further questions, please go ahead and ask.

Guru Nanak Gurudwara (Leicester) Sangat


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