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Marta Steele
Washington, DC
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Marta commented on the article |
"If you were running the country Marta, it would be a shell of its current state. Maybe one big happy commune"
How do you know? Good God, go to my blog, wordsunltd.com. I'm a patriot, extremely worried that all the wealth of this country is in the hands of very few people while the huge majority are struggling to various degrees. That's one of my themes. I'd say right now the US is a "shell" of what it should be. I don't have political aspirations anyway. So lose no sleep on that score, though I did go to school with Hillary. She was two years older.
I don't know enough about you to say where this country would go in your capable hands. Do you?
In terms of the majority of our exports, commodities, we already are a third-world country. I read that in a source you probably respect, the New York Times.
Let's see what else you write; The issue of entitlement? I have that mentality. What's wrong with it? I've worked all my life to earn whatever pittance Social Security will give me.
Their country to take back? Probably. Same thing is happening in Israel, sort of. Liberia also? Former slaves taking back a piece of their native territory? Oh, what hell we Americans have put so many people through. But nowhere do I say that we are hated all over the world. We aren't, especially now that Obama is in office.
What's your solution. Deport them? They're building this huge stone wall to make things tougher than just crossing the Rio Grande out of sight of the border guards. When we deport them, another huge expense, they will return to their miserable, impoverished lives, because the government surplus is being lent to us. Is that ok?
The UN is concerned with world poverty and illness. They do some good. Everytime an innocent person suffers, it is wrong, dead wrong. The US and the rest of the world respond to tsunamis and other natural disasters. Such squalid poverty is a disaster. You should visit it sometime. Have you?
I admit that the situation is dreadful. I agree with you. Something should be done. There are no easy solutions, are there? This thread is titled "nativism," by the way. I guess you agree with Lou. You're entitled to your opinion.
Let me offer another anecdote. There's this old house turned into 7 condos. It's a beautiful house, but very high-maintenance. It is inhabited by women. When they need repairs, because they are women, they usually overpay for shoddy work and can't afford an advocate who can make any difference. Along comes this man from Guatemala, who does excellent work for them at half the price the monsters are charging. I don't know what his immigrant status is, and I don't have the "outsourcing" mentality per se, but if such immigrants raise standards and treat oppressed groups humanely, more power to them. The others will begin to compete and treat their customers with more respect.
We don't have to argue ad infinitum. I exist as if I can change the world. You'll find that on my blog, too. I even have instructions on how to accomplish it and save the world. If we don't pitch in and do our part, we won't have a part to pitch in, said Eleanor Roosevelt. I do what I can.
Democracy is hard work. Without our hard work, it will disintegrate. So said John Adams.
If you want to drop out, fine. I don't think we'll agree either. I shudder to think that the eloquent words of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written by slaveowners who traded a few strings of beads with the Natives for priceless, huge tracts of land and fought back with firesticks and virtually anihilated them. Our founding fathers. Well, here we are anyway.
I could go on forever. Please don't misquote me though.
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Marta commented on the article |
Rob,
Your very thoughtful comments are marred by name calling and stereotyping with which you conclude. How can I respect the opinions of a name caller?
Think back to our origins for a moment. Where would this country be without the illegal immigrants who soon became slaveowners and took the land away from the Native Americans?
So you're correct to be alarmed by the present influx of "illegal immigrants," according to that logic, correct? Scary, isn't it?
It's just that I'm a citizen of the world as well as of this country. If the problems of other countries didn't concern us, why do we have military bases all over the world? Why did we occupy Iraq so violently and destructively?
Surely Obama should discuss with the leadership of Mexico the deplorable conditions of its citizenry that is occasioning the negative results you point out. But to my knowledge this is not happening. Tragedy is what is bringing many immigrants to this country. Deplorable living circumstances.
Our bottom lines differ, certainly. Mine is that the misfortunes of the world concern us. When those in power ignore the plight of its masses of impoverished and disenfranchised citizens, bad things can result, like revolution, as happened in France.
The US government travels all around the world to address pressing issues as the reigning superpower of the world. So I'm not surprised about immigrants, legal or otherwise, coming here because the U.S. hasn't adequately addressed their problems.
Ignoring such people will generate far worse consequences than those you specify in your response.
I will not end this response with any stereotyping or name calling. That's just not appropriate to a debate over serious issues.
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Marta commented on the article |
Pointless debate? It's just now getting interesting. Bleeding heart liberal? Great idea that they should take over their own destinies by educating themselves here and then returning to their own country. Why don't you oversee the process?
Again, were I one of those immigrants, I'd keep trying to come here. Is that bleeding heart or simply the Darwinian imperative to survive and thrive?
Let's not get into those particulars. I'm no Darwin scholar.
Let me tell you a brief anecdote. I'm pressed for time. My brother and sister-in-law went to one of those chique resorts in Mexico and one day started to explore the environs. They quickly, quickly, came upon enclaves the likes of which they had never seen--the poverty so rank, so dire, so abject as they had never even imagined. My sister in law refused ever to return.
I'm sure, were any of you born into those circumstances, you'd curse your existence and the tony resort around the corner, if you had the time to stop laboring for a few centavos a day. It is tough, under such circumstances, to do anything, let alone run away to seek a better life. It's like being born into a family of crack addicts in an inner-city slum. Go see the movie "Precious" to get some idea of what life is like in such dark corners of the world.
I'd immigrate. I couldn't afford a passport. Or I'd somehow (don't ask) get the money to board one of those illegal buses that crosses the border into the deserts of Arizona.
Not only is my heart bleeding. Again I say, you have to have been there.
Off to work! Hay que trabajar!
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Marta commented on the article |
Rob,
I used to teach rhetoric. Ad hominem is a low place to go. If you believe this, then you're a fool. It's not that simple.
There's nothing about immigration papers in Emma Lazarus's poem. Perhaps instead of replacing it, we can just add a lot of footnotes. "Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me"--wow, we've got plenty of them. And after all, she doesn't say what will happen after that. Or does she? I have the first stanza memorized, but should read those that follow. There's also a prelude.
The troubles of the world concern all of us. Without Mexico's budget surplus, perhaps we couldn't have been able to bail out Wall St., who knows? We're not the only people entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. My daughter used to interview people seeking assylum from countries that would jail or execute them if they returned.
Is it wrong to seek assylum because you're living in abject poverty without hope of advancing your "career," without access to birth control but a growing family? "Illiegal" immigration can be seen as a form of assylum. What of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
We've made "illiegal" immigration a lot tougher these days. The immigrants risk their lives and try again and again to come here, and some die on buses in the midst of the desert in Arizona. And so on. As far as illegal drug trafficking goes, it's been my privilege to meet others who engage in that "profession" as white collars. Do you realize how unguarded all of our major ports are? You can ship in whatever you want to, and lots of it, so go spend a lot of money getting rid of the gangs, but the market and the problem won't go away.
As far as taxes go, as I said before, it's nickels and dimes compared to what is spent on the military aspect of our economy.
I do believe this. I'm a human rights advocate. I'd greatly prefer to pay taxes for "illegals" than drones that kill innocent civilians. It's nauseating to read how many die so that one leader can be nailed. One thousaned is the latest figure I read this morning.
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Marta commented on the article |
I couldn't help but return to add one more point I made on another thread of Change.org. Those of you unsympathetic to illegal immigration should hold a contest and rip off the poem that currently glorifies the Statue of Liberty. Surely we can't call ourselves the New Colossus.
As far as economic problems caused by Latinos, they are dwarfed by the colossal funds wasted on war while there are so many "tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to be free" here as well as in Mexico and throughout the world.
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Marta commented on the article |
Amazing how a country in such political turmoil (I'm right here in DC) can be such a desideratum for other nationalities.
Even as a Progressive critic of this massive bureaucratic chaos that we somehow manage to navigate daily, I know where they're coming from. I am massively patriotic as the daughter of refugees who were able to start life all over again in what to them was a hospitable environment compared to where they came from.
I keep thinking about the poem "New Colossus" that adorns the Statue of Liberty and has elevated it to such iconic status. Are we or are we not the "golden shore"? How can we possible eject people like Ju without removing that poem from the statue and being more honest? Anyone up for a new poetry contest? It's been more than a hundred years since Emma Lazarus won the last one.
I won't venture any entries. I'm sure others could do better.
Go to the end of the line that wraps around the Equator?
or
We don't want your tired, your poor. Wretched refuse, indeed?
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Marta commented on the article |Not to worry. The human race will be extinct by 2100. The soup pot will have started filling up sooner, according to projections. (I've done a lot of projecting at my blog about the ramifications in detail of the insidious, coming deluge.)
I don't know about migrating to other planets, but "they" could manufacture lots of space stations and really crank up math and science curricula all over the place. Then we could waltz through the universe to the tune of the soundtrack from 2001: Space Odyssey.
But there is this bit of hope at the bottom of Pandora's box: science to fight back against our extinction, along with lots more attention to our languishing environment very quickly. But scientific inventiveness and imagination are the real keys to our survival.
Not too long ago I wrote in a blog about the fall of Western Civ: "Will all those dead white men have labored in vain?"
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