And I would also like everyone to know that I disprove of what Ms. Esparza did. I didn't see the comments, as they were already removed. I think I read something about Ms. Esparza threatening Ms. Price. That was uncalled for, and she was wrong. I'm glad she was deleted from the site, and I hope she wises up at some point.
"This man was a women's doctor. He had other work to do that you and others who think like you can't do." That's a little bit personal, don't you think?
While he may have done all the work you mentioned, he still took inncoent life on an astronomical scale. FOX NEWS reported that he aborted 10,000 unborn babies, I recently heard as high as 60,000 (ARMY OF GOD).
Holy Reverend,
1) There is no reason to believe that "Bible Thumpers" would love to kill homosexuals. I'm assuming that "Bible thumper" is a reference to Fundamentalists. I went to a Fundamentalist church for about five years. I never heard anyone say they were planning on killing homosexuals, nor was anyone in that church convicted of or even accused of violence against homosexuals. Why do you keep holding onto this? What fundamentalist Christian have you heard say that he would love to kill homosexuals?
I'm not saying that the killing of anyone who accepts abortion would be justifiable homicide. I'm saying that I personally believe the murder of an abortionist is. That's where your comparsion is wrong. And, not accepting homosexuality and a person actually saying they are going to kill homosexuals are two totally different things. That's another fallacy in your comparison.
2) "While you may view abortion as murder, the fact that others dont is just as valid as your own beliefs." If they can make an effective arguement for it. The fact that people believe different things does not necessarily mean they both have valid beliefs. In short, just because you (or I) believe something, doesn't make it true.
Doctor Tiller actually performed the abortions. He was the one that made the decision to end the life of the unborn baby, even if the woman already decided that she was going to have an abortion.
You're comparison, once again, is incorrect. I am not talking about the decision to give birth. Having an abortion does more than end a pregnancy. It ends a life.
"Since when is it your job to decide who gets to die?" First of all, you where the one that asked me if I thought murder was okay if I agreed with the killer's motive. Yes, I am sure that my position is the minority. Now I'm not trying to compare myself to an abolitionist, but I'm sure the opinions of those anti-slavery during the slave trade were in the minority. A majoity's opinion does not always equal the right thing.
Jesus was not the one that said "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed. For in the image of God He made man." If you carefully read my last post, you would have seen that the verse I was talking about is found in Genesis. My point was that this was the Law, and Jesus said he came to fulfil it.
"you're misconstruing his words." What I said in the above paragraph.
Abortion is the taking of an innocent human life, whether we all agree on that or not. If you would like to discuss this, I would be happy to.
"Although, taking it further, what if someones then sees you killing the killer and decides to kill you?" Can we try not to get too hypothetical here? If that has ever happened, I would very much like to know the details.
Was George Tiller so perfect that we should have felt comfortable leaving the decision of ending a human life to him? Is any abortionist that perfect? Should the government even allow abortions, for that reason?
Thank you, Ms. Esparza.
As a Christian, I have no problem with what you said about Jesus. Jesus did say to love others and treat them kindly, but he also said this: Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Jesus also said this: Matthew 5:17: "I did not come to abolish the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." The law, in Israel during Jesus' time, was the first five books of the Bible, also known as the Torah. The first book of the Bible says this: Genesis 9:6: "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed. For in the image of God He made man." This means that if an innocent person is killed, the killer's blood will be shed by man, because all human beings are made in God's image. And this is the law Jesus said he came to fulfil.
Anyone who agrees with me isn't Christian? Since when did it become your job to decide who is Christian? God is the One who does that, and he doesn't need your help, my help, or anybody's help. Leave the decision of who is Christian and who isn't to Jesus.
"what is "Christian" about murdering someone?" Maybe someone should have asked that to Dr. Tiller when he was alive, as he was in his Lutheran church when he was killed.
"Lastly, there is no such thing as "justified homicide", except perhaps in self defense." There is such a thing as justifiable homicide, and it includes murder for the reason of preventing the death of a third party. Scott Roeder was considering it before he decided to push for involuntary manslaughter.
Ms. M,
If the man who killed Tiller did it with the intent of saving another 10,000 unborn babies, then I do personally think that homicide is justifiable.
"If you think the doctor should have died, that's for the courts to decide. Whatever the motive for Dr Tiller, murder is murder."
Let me present this situation, and tell me what you think. A man is walking down the street and hears gunshots, and runs to where they are being fired, and then sees a man killing school children who are on a lunch break. If the passerby then shoots the attacker dead, is that considered murder? Should that defender of the innocent have waited for the courts to decide if the man shooting children should be killed? Would you have told him that no matter's the motive of the person who was killed, murder is murder? What if someone had killed Hitler, or let's say, a prominent slave trader? There is an old Sicilian saying, which I tend to agree with: "Laws do not make justice". This means that laws are not infallible, and that they too can become corrupt.
(Continued in next post)
Mr. Reverend Boony...
Wha? How are people who refuse to accept homosexuality threatening the lives of the G.L.B.T. community? You have the nerve to compare people who are practicing their religious freedom as well as freedom of speech to a man who killed 10,000 unborn babies in cold blood? That comparison is ridiculous, unless you are talking about a single "Christian" who killed 10,000 homosexuals. Then, you can make that comparison and we can actually talk about how killing him would be justifiable homicide, because it would. If someone did that, they would deserve to be killed.
Ms. Esparza,
I agree with almost everything you said except for your belief that they are "both murderers". According to Fox News, Tiller murdered 10,000 unborn babies. According to the Army of God (mentioned in the above article), Tiller would perform between 10-30 abortions a day. How many innocent lives did Mr. Roeder save by ending the life of a cold-blooded killer-for-profit? 10,000 to 1. Seems like justifiable homicide to me. Also seems like Tiller got what was coming for him.
Warren Hern said "'This judge has basically announced a death sentence for all of us who help women."
More like a death sentence to those who hand out death sentences without trials to innocent, defenseless, human life.
In many cases, abortion is a matter of convenience. According to Operation Rescue, in America (not sure about Ireland) rape/incest accounts for less than 1% of abortions.
When something is a serious threat to a person's life, it is not murder to kill it. However, I mean a life or death situation, not simply a matter of mental health. When it is a life or death situation, abortion is self-defense. In your mention of a woman who got pregnant while undergoing chemo, abortion is necessary.
However, I do not see how every pregnancy (without complications) is a serious health risk. We do need to keep in mind that abortion ends a human life, no matter the situation.
I would say that in an inconvienant pregnancy, the unborn baby's right to life would take precedence over a woman's right to kill for self-defense.
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