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According to numerous studies and tests in schools throughout the world, children who were taught Esperanto before another foreign language succeeded in learning the second language much faster and better than without taking a prior course of Esperanto. The use of a grammatically simple and culturally flexible auxiliary language like Esperanto lessens the second-language learning hurdle (see an article on Wikipedia for examples of pedagogic experiments).
A pilot project, Springboard2languages, was introduced in a number of British primary schools. It offers an introduction to foreign languages through Esperanto, used as a tool to raise language awareness and build transferable skills. It serves as an adequate preparation for learning other languages and was particularly suitable for the non-specialist teacher of foreign languages in primary schools. Esperanto gives all children a taste of success in language-learning, due to the streamlined regularity of its grammar.
If a similar school course of Esperanto as the first foreign language were introduced to the US schoolchildren, it would greatly help American kids in their efforts to learn another foreign language following Esperanto: Spanish, French, German, or any other offered by their school.
In an increasingly globalised and interconnected world a command of multiple languages becomes a "must" and an important competitive advantage for a nation as whole. Instruction of foreign languages in Europe has been taken to new heights, while the US is falling behind. Inspired by the President-elect Barack Obama's call, issued during his campaign, for American children to learn foreign languages, we claim that time for this CHANGE is NOW!
(Some introduction-level facts about Esperanto as a language and cutural phenomenon can be found on Wikipedia or on the web-based Esperanto course for children and grown-ups, Lernu.net)
691 older comments, see the full discussion ^
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Mi ankaux subtenas Esperanton! Cxiam!
Posted by Laura Canas Gonzalez on 01/06/2009 @ 03:41PM PST
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Esperanto estas la lingvo internacia.
Posted by Edilson Lopes on 01/06/2009 @ 04:12PM PST
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The world is going through a big change, affecting our daily lives because of new thechnologies in communication. Powerful computers, digital telephone lines, satelite data transmission, internet, google, and on and on... Some decades ago, to talk to someone from Houston to Los Angeles was costly and dificult to place a call, now, you can talk to someone from Houston to Tokyo using a cell phone in matter of seconds and paying just a few bucks. This big wave is creating new habits and more important is much easier to comunicate with people from every Country, but we need a common language to facilitate this process. Why not Esperanto?
Posted by Alvaro Tutia on 01/06/2009 @ 04:44PM PST
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:)
Mi tre subtnas Esperanto!!!
Posted by Andreo Ukrainio on 01/06/2009 @ 05:35PM PST
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Mi tre tre tre subtenas Esperanton!!!
http://www.retejo.net
Posted by Andreo Ukrainio on 01/06/2009 @ 05:38PM PST
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Teaching Esperanto to American kids? Well, they would have much fun and joy ...
Posted by José A. Vergara on 01/06/2009 @ 07:51PM PST
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Mi timas, ke la multoblaj voĉdonĵoj de la samaj entuziazmaj esperantistoj en Ĉinio malhelpus nian proponon. Ĉu eblas peti al ili, ke ili BV nur unuope voĉdoni?
__________
Johano
Posted by John E Maroney on 01/06/2009 @ 08:38PM PST
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Bonaa ideo. Esperanto kiel lingvo internacia, neutrala devas esti
instruata en la lernejoj de la tuta mono kaj uzata kiel internacia
en la sxtataj kontaktoj, konferencoj ktp.
Boguslavo
Posted by Bogusław Sobol on 01/06/2009 @ 10:44PM PST
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I can't believe I am the only endorser for this idea. Please, write to Esperanto-USA (info@esperanto-usa.org), Esperantistic Studies Foundation (admin@esperantic.org), Universala Esperanto Asocio (info@uea.org), etc to endorse it.
Posted by Jose Pablo Fernandez on 01/06/2009 @ 11:05PM PST
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People using Esperanto are aiming at Peace with a neutral and easy language.
Esperanto prevalent in USA shall change the world !!!
For peace and understanding each other!
Posted by Hong-Jin Lee on 01/07/2009 @ 12:59AM PST
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mi ege amas esperanton! I really endorse this project!
Posted by Anna Maria Dall'Olio on 01/07/2009 @ 01:41AM PST
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Having studied several languages to varying degrees of success since my childhood, I can vouch for the fact that Esperanto is not only the simplest and quickest to learn, it is also the most flexible and creative. There are no long tables of exceptions to learn by heart, only a logical set of grammar rules to be applied to root words. Once you understand the rules, you have a key to being as creative as you like with the language and others with the same knowledge can understand you. Esperanto gives an intuitive insight into the structure of language itself, that no natural language (to my knowledge) gives, and with that understanding anyone can then use that as a foundation to learn other languages. It's the best stepping stone to language-learning and global communication ever devised. Give one generation the chance to prove that!
Posted by Dee McCarney on 01/07/2009 @ 02:10AM PST
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Bela Ideo! Espereble la amerikaj lernantoj vidu la mondon en pli vasta aspekto kaj tiel pli ili multe respektu la homojn kiel al ili mem.
Posted by Adonis Saliba on 01/07/2009 @ 02:27AM PST
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This discusion IS NOT in esperanto! Please, if you speak esperanto use forum on lernu.net or other project of E@I. This website is in english so write in english.
I too support esperanto as international (or supernacional) language but on web site for change IN USA is better language english.
And I want to say that "propedeutic" function of esperanto I know from my experience. After 3 month of learn esperanto I was abitil read simple text in latin.
Posted by Michal Matusov on 01/07/2009 @ 03:34AM PST
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Mi estas ĉina esperantisto,Mi tre subtenas la bonan ideon.
Posted by espero espero on 01/07/2009 @ 04:23AM PST
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Esperanto sound like a great idea. I know from my own experiences that I got a better understanding about languages after I learned Esperanto. I tried to learn other languages before but no one helped me like Esperanto did. When I learned Esperanto I saw, for the first time in my life, a point in learning he grammar. Since its actually regular in Esperanto I saw that it could really help me here. Before I learned Esperanto I didn't think that grammar lessons helped me that much in learning another language. It was hard to remember and I always forgot which was which so it was easier to just try and learn how people talked. I still find it hard with grammar but since Esperanto is built to be logical It's easier to understand now. If I do not understand anything I often translate the grammar I know from Esperanto to my mother language and that helps me a lot. I would have succeeded much better in school with the lessons in my mother language if I had learned Esperanto earlier in life. Unfortunately it's to late for me now and I've already gotten my grades so they can't be improved. I would like for others to get the advantage I didn't have.
Posted by Malin Algehov on 01/07/2009 @ 04:33AM PST
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Español: Creo razonable y necesario enseñar Esperanto en las escuelas. Quiero que todos los alumnos tengan la oportunidad de aprenderlo como yo cuando era alumno. Info y curso gratis en la red: www.lernu.net; www.esperanto.org.ar
Posted by Tarducci J on 01/07/2009 @ 04:51AM PST
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Esperanto, with its agglutinative structure, is great fun to play with--you can create all sorts of words, very easily. I'm sure that aspect of it could be used to advantage in teaching it to children.
However, in order to attract significant numbers of people, esperanto needs to have more of a distinctive culture. No-one learns a second (or third or fourth) language, just because it is "easy". Even a difficult or challenging language can attract significant support, if it has something to offer. ie social or financial advantages, or access to a distinctive culture.
Esperanto I would place in the position that english was in, in the early Tudor period, when there was material in translation, but the great names(Shakespeare, Marlow, composers like Purcell & Dowland) were still a generation or two in the future. Esperanto doesn't quite have its own cultural identity yet (though it has the beginnings of it), just as english didn't then. At the present time, as an englishman with an interest in Indian culture (and hinduism) , hindi would be more worthwhile to me now, if I were to learn a new language. Another--& more exotic--language, would be Tamil, a south Indian language, "the world's last living classical language." There are tamils in my neighbourhood, too.
Of course, it is always possible that one day someone will put literature and music from those cultures into esperanto. Perhaps that's what we need to be doing--stepping well outside the world of the christian West, to find the cultural inspiration we need to enrichen esperanto culture, and hence make it more alluring.
I repeat, people won't learn a language just because it is "easy".
Posted by Robert Campion on 01/07/2009 @ 05:00AM PST
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Such a good idea! Finally Northamericans will have the possibility to communicate with more people in different countries without discrimination.
For efficient communication between all - a neutral language.
Ursula Grattapaglia
Posted by Ursula Grattapaglia on 01/07/2009 @ 06:06AM PST
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Esperanto is the best way to open your mind to the whole world. Mi bubtenas Esperanton
Posted by Michèle Côté on 01/07/2009 @ 06:16AM PST
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The languages divides today the people -
but Esperanto, an-easy-to-learn-language, would be a strong unifying factor.
Giuseppe Grattapaglia
Posted by Giuseppe Grattapaglia on 01/07/2009 @ 06:21AM PST
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From my vantage point here in Nanjing, China I would say that Esperanto would be an excellent way for kids to start learning a foreign language if the they would later want to learn a European language or an Asian one such as Chinese. Esperanto is much, much easier than even Spanish, and will get the kids enthusiastic about learning foreign langauges because Esperanto is certainly a language that they can really master. Six teachers in our department speak Esperanto with our Chinese directorm, and there are kids in Nanjing and environs who are currently learning the language.Dennis KeefeDirector of Extension Programs DAFLSUniversity of Nanjing, China
Posted by Dennis Keefe on 01/07/2009 @ 06:29AM PST
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I support Esperanto too!!!!!
Esperanto for all world!
Esperanto por c'iuj!
Posted by Franco Mazza on 01/07/2009 @ 06:46AM PST
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I read here —especially from those who write against the idea— comments that have absolutely nothing to do with what Esperanto is about. I read here some person suggesting Latin instead of Esperanto. Are we on the same planet?
Latin, with all the inflexions, irregularities, almost impossible verb conjugations, grammatical cases, etc., would be the PERFECT invitation to NOT get involved in studying languages.
Esperanto is the complete opposite of Latin as far as simplicity in grammar, verb conjugations and general language rules. Latin has rules and more exceptions to the rules than actual cases obeying the rules.
Esperanto is a language than can be learned and mastered in a few months —even weeks. The most silly human situation is that it is not already spoken by billions in the world. It should be, by now, THE second language for all human beings.
As a "talking species", we create our languages in a cultural way, throughout the years. In general, all those "natural" languages are very inefficient in establishing rules to say things. Their grammar is usually a collection of curious exceptions that anybody who intends to study will ultimately master only by living amongst natives.
So, within our intelligent species, one man appeared, Lazarus Zamenhof, who made a brilliant job of designing a language so that all the difficulties of the "natural" (historical-cultural) languages would be absent. A language that would nor require "living amongst natives" to learn.
This language has been a reality —at our service— for more than 120 years now. Not having been able to organize our societies so as to adopt it as a universal second language for all speaks foolishly of our species. It is a sign of stubbornness, a serious lack of capacity to actively decide a shift of paradigm.
In back of the negligence to accept it, lies an unbearable tendency to distrust any idea as hiding "some catch" that will benefit some while harming others.
For once, human beings, OPEN YOUR EYES AND MINDS and trust this. Esperanto IS a neutral idea, good for all, bad for nobody. If you are a teacher of foreign languages today, your experience will give you the power to learn Esperanto faster than others and you will continue to be useful in teaching some of the millions who will be eager and ready to learn it.
No matter what industry you work in, learning Esperanto will make it easier for you to do business with the other human beings that also will be in the process of learning it. Gradually, all sites will have Esperanto versions, all public places throughout the world will show sings in Esperanto, more and more tourists will learn it as part of their next trip and more and more people working in the tourism industry will be ready to communicate in Esperanto with their future customers.
Esperanto can only be good for you, your family, your friends, your business, your neighbors.
Teaching Esperanto as THE universal second language in all basic school systems of the world will be the most intelligent step ever taken together by our species as a whole. The USA setting the example will make it possible.
Posted by Franz J Fortuny on 01/07/2009 @ 06:54AM PST
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[[ Six teachers in our department speak Esperanto with our Chinese director, and there are kids in Nanjing and environs who are currently learning the language. ]]
Attention, Jarret Guajardo, please get thee to Nanjing.
[[ Of course, it is always possible that one day someone will put literature and music from those cultures into esperanto. Perhaps that's what we need to be doing--stepping well outside the world of the christian West, to find the cultural inspiration we need to enrichen esperanto culture, and hence make it more alluring. ]]
This has already been done, as a tour through the Esperanto world on the internet would reveal. Literature from India, Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Iran, and other countries "outside the world of the christian West" has been translated into Esperanto, and there is even original literature/essays/lectures from Esperantists in those places.
The current president of the World Esperanto Association, Probal Dasgupta, is from India. Somehow he managed to get past the heavy bias Esperanto has towards Europe, Romance languages, Judeo-Christian history, and everything else people who don't know anything about the Esperanto movement complain about, to rise to this position and speak/read/write Esperanto fluently in the process. I'm sure he would be delighted to provide more extensive evidence along these lines if one were to write to him. ;-)
Posted by David Gaines on 01/07/2009 @ 07:01AM PST
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This is a very sensitive issue, politically and culturally. I believe it is very fair (equal opportunity for all) and cost effective to use Esperanto as the first international language, but it would be very hard to implement it if we rely on the English speakers as the 1st language to respond to and accept the idea.
Think about this: When someone is already the beneficiary of an exisitng system and of course they have no reason to change or think that there is a need to change. It takes much effort and integrity for an individual to change for the sack of justice or making the world a better place. The brutal truth of human nature: if it is not for their own good, who cares for change?
Why do we need to wait for their approval and participation to start in the first place? As the swedish activist said, only 5% of the world population can speak and use English properly. I can't see any reason why we should wait for this 5% to act and advocate. As global citizens, we should launch the program without them. If the majority of the industrial/economic powers started implementing and promoting the program, they would be the ones who had to follow suit! I don't mind that English continues to be the international language provided that it has a consistent linguitic system and its usage in all English speaking countries. Language grammar is all about rules and how to use it to convey meanings. Too many exceptions under the same ''rule governed" system lose the essence of rules. Inconsistancy, lack of national and international guidelines for the use of English and its grammar, and too many variations amongst the English speaking world make learning and teaching English so difficult, unsuccessful and cost inefficient.
Posted by Siu Chan on 01/07/2009 @ 07:11AM PST
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Foni ar pipol hu ask mi wayt onli en englisch hir.
Ay kom hir tu ask ze bos of yunaytid steyts of amerika tu
titsch an internaschyonol neutrol komon lengueydge tu o lot
of amerikane tchildrn, layk ay ask ze bosiz of evwi kontwiz
tu titsch zis internaschyonol neutrol komon lengueydge.
If ay kant wayt en bwitisch, bwokn, bazik o anoze kaynd of
englisch bikoz ay nevo lont it inof ...its not may fowt. Ay
wud wayt beto en esperanto (28 letos = 28 sawns).
Haw meni pipol en Yu-Es-Ey dat spik en wayt inof englisch
end wud no beto zi own lengweydge wen ze lorn esperanto ?
Hapi nyu ye tu evri nays hat hia end zea.
G. C. fwom Pireneoj.
Posted by Jorgos ESPERANTO on 01/07/2009 @ 07:30AM PST
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Foni ar pipol hu ask mi wayt onli en englisch hir.
Ay kom hir tu ask ze bos of yunaytid steyts of amerika tu
titsch an internaschyonol neutrol komon lengueydge tu o lot
of amerikane tchildrn, layk ay ask ze bosiz of evwi kontwiz
tu titsch zis internaschyonol neutrol komon lengueydge.
If ay kant wayt en bwitisch, bwokn, bazik o anoze kaynd of
englisch bikoz ay nevo lont it inof ...its not may fowt. Ay
wud wayt beto en esperanto (28 letos = 28 sawns).
Haw meni pipol en Yu-Es-Ey dat spik en wayt inof englisch
end wud no beto zi own lengweydge wen ze lorn esperanto ?
Hapi nyu ye tu evri nays hat hia end zea.
G. C. fwom Pireneoj.
Posted by Jorgos ESPERANTO on 01/07/2009 @ 07:30AM PST
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English a contrived language? English was and still is a mess of languages that fumbled together over centuries, not a few lifetimes! I can understand frustration with English, with borrowed rules from at least a dozen languages that create many obnoxious exceptions to rules, but navigating these exceptions is not made any easier by studying a contrived language with no exceptions. We may as well study Latin. It would be far more useful anyhow.
The real problem with language acquisition in the US is that most students don't start learning language until age 15. Developmentally, that is ridiculously late. Furthermore, if you add an Esperanto requirement at that age, you still have only 4 years to bungle into another language. Our students already pack their time solid and are behind on nearly every subject by that time. Esperanto would simply add another over-complicated hurdle and immediately have teachers finding themselves in the same predicament as other high school teachers: with all the state budget cuts, can you say expendable? YES YOU CAN!
Posted by Ian Lee on 01/07/2009 @ 08:10AM PST
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But we must not forget that when you spend 150 hours learning Esperanto, you would spend 1500 to 2000 to reach the same level in another language (from Paderborn's Cybernetic Institute), and you would have better students, with less budget.
Posted by Othmane Benkirane on 01/07/2009 @ 08:55AM PST
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Your attention, please!
We have already moren than on third of the needed votes. It's necessary to strengten our forces in order to gain de difference. If we work hard(ly?) we will succeed as we did in the first round!
In the end will pu the "V" of Victory not an Esperanto Victory
but all american kids' VICTORY. THEY WILL BE THE WINNER OF THIS RUNNING"
As said the American Pioneers: ON GOD WE TRUST! AND I AMMEND "FOREVER!".
José Mário Marques
José Mário Marques
Posted by José Mário Marques on 01/07/2009 @ 09:29AM PST
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Yes, Esperanto is a great idea. Teaching Esperanto in the schools of USA will be a great event ! USA will be the leaders, about this : yes Barack can do it !
Jes, Esperanto estas grandega ideo. Instruado de Esperanto en la lernejoj de Usono estos granda evento ! Usono estos la direkt-montranto pri tio : jes Barak povas fari tion !
Posted by Samuel Gaillard on 01/07/2009 @ 09:34AM PST
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Beside the fact that I am esperantist and use this language with fun, I'm really doubtful about the proposal, which has changed since the last ballot.
I think that suggesting esperanto as the first taught language is a mistake, because by doing this, esperanto threat the learning of other language in the class schedule (which I suppose, is already quite full). But, the main goal of esperanto is to protect national language, not to threat them.
The proposal should be to introduce the teaching of esperanto aside to the teaching of other topics and languages.
That doesn't cost much time: about 2 hours/week during one year.
Greetings,
Posted by Aleks ks on 01/07/2009 @ 09:34AM PST
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Aleks ks, point taken, I reformulated the idea. Thanks for your constructive criticism!
Posted by Oleg Izyumenko on 01/07/2009 @ 10:01AM PST
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Esperanto Ĉiam
Posted by Mario Kleinhans Rodíguez on 01/07/2009 @ 11:53AM PST
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Esperanto konkeros la mondon...!! Nia Lingvo estas taŭga por la enkonduko en ajna landa eduksistemo, facila, legebla kaj oni povas lerni tre rapide ol ajna natura lingvo.
Posted by Diomar Chávez on 01/07/2009 @ 12:07PM PST
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I've been reading many of the comments made and I think some of them are a little bit out of place. We must remember that the proposal is basically pedagogical; that is, Esperanto should be taught because it will simplify the learning of subsequent languages WITH A COST MUCH MUCH SMALLER THAN ANY OTHER LANGUAGE AND A MUCH BIGGER EFFECTIVENESS.
AS "SIDE-EFFECTS", there would be some other profits for children, as they would gain:
-self-confidence in learning foreign languages.
-grammar knowledge applicable not only to Esperanto, but also to English and any other language.
-means of communicating with people of many coutries.
-Unexpensive means to travel with the help of other Esperantists.
-conscience of foreign cultures.
-A tool for the Global peace.
When I say a much much smaller cost, I mean that THIS PROGRAMS IS SO CHEAP THAT IT WOULDN'T PREVENT OTHERS FROM HAPPENING: Instruction to teachers can be done by volunteers in a very short time (6 months, maybe) and the school-year "spent" by children in it, even if it is instead of another language, will pay back with a much better and faster asimilation of the next language that the child studies.
Luis Raudón. Mexico
Posted by Luis I. Raudon on 01/07/2009 @ 12:10PM PST
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Teaching Esperanto to kids at the schools in the USA wil be the most unexpected achievement in honor of Ludoviko L. Zamenhof, the creator, at his 150 aaniversary. He was born at Bialystock, Poland, in 1859. He predict that in the future humanity will accept Esperanto as a comon languagre. And many catholics await he decision of the Catholic Church to accept Esperanto as the New Latin of the Church... The time of changes in the world are coming...
Posted by Oriel Sarbre on 01/07/2009 @ 12:19PM PST
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I will translate part of the comment by Diomar Chavez. "Our language, Esperanto, is appropriate for introduction into any school system, easy, easy to read and can be learned quicker than any other language." My blog is www.EsperantoFriends.blogspot.com
Posted by Neil Blonstein on 01/07/2009 @ 05:50PM PST
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Kun la esperanta linguo la personoj povus plibonigi oni kompreni,kaj cxiuj povus fari scii al alij nian deziron kaj ne lasi ke estu la mono kiu direktu la mondo
Posted by Marian Garayoa on 01/07/2009 @ 06:15PM PST
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This has GOT to be the biggest waste of a top 10 idea I've seen.. along with legalize milk.. WHY are these the top ideas?? We have the opportunity to actually throw some full-power lobbying at the president and THIS is what we come up with? You think he's going to make ALL school districts in ALL states suddenly teach some random language MOST people have never heard of? I'm all for learning new languages, I speak 3 myself, but I think America has some bigger problems right now.. ESPECIALLY in education.......
That can NOT be denied.....
Posted by Monsey Sanchez on 01/07/2009 @ 06:22PM PST
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I totally agree with the comments in the video made by Oleg Izyumenko. There are a lot more pupils in China who learn Esperanto than in the US. They have official radio stations and websites in Esperanto. Even in the Olympic last year, Esperanto was one of the service languages! Why? I think they found the importance of this international neutral language. As a world leader, We should also promote Esperanto.
Posted by joho wang on 01/07/2009 @ 07:02PM PST
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I do agree with this: "The languages divides today the people -
but Esperanto, an-easy-to-learn-language, would be a strong unifying factor". (G. Grattapaglia).
Paulo Nascentes
Brazilian world citizen
Posted by Paulo Nascentes on 01/07/2009 @ 07:05PM PST
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To Monsey Sanchez,
Worldwide hatred is a vast problem. During my childhood, during the cold war, thousands of Eastern and Western Europeans were exchanging letters visits and friendship via Esperanto while the majority acquiesced to the will of the hostile governments. The founders of Esperanto taught friendship and religious tolerance in ways that most individuals still simply can't understand. Did you admire Gandhi and Martin Luther King. So I admire the founders of Esperanto, particularly L.L.Zamenhof. We need the inspiration of the early Esperanto movement.
Posted by Neil Blonstein on 01/07/2009 @ 07:21PM PST
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Esperanto makes the world more frendly
Posted by Johan van der Hoek on 01/07/2009 @ 07:49PM PST
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I vote in favor of the introduction of language Esperanto in the American schools, because it is the easiest, more flexible and more appropriate language to be used by people of the whole world in the international communication. It's easily learned (in just some months, it can be better learned than it is possible to do with relationship to the other national languages after having studied them during some years). And the most interesting is that all the people can learn it in equality of conditions, with practically the same easiness and with a minimum of effort.
Posted by Luiz Lyra on 01/07/2009 @ 10:18PM PST
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"Ni semas kaj semas, neniam laciĝas"
Posted by Roger Gotardi on 01/08/2009 @ 03:03AM PST
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Dear supporters (or critics),
please leave your comment in Engish ONLY. By writing in Esperanto, a language that not all people in the world can understand (yet :-)), you look sectarian, scary or even aggresive. Everything unknown and incomprehesible wakes a negative reaction. Be aware of that. It's way better to vote "silently", without leaving any comments, than to write just in Esperanto.
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short note in Esperanto:
Bonvolu NE komenti en Esperanto entute!! Skribu komentojn nur en la angla. Se vi ne scipovas la anglan, ne skribu entute, simple vocxdonu per klako sur blua butono kaj ne lasu komentojn en lingvoj aliaj ol la angla. Alie vi aspektos kiel agresemaj sektuloj, cxu tiel vi volas ke la mondo perceptu nin?
Posted by Oleg Izyumenko on 01/08/2009 @ 05:17AM PST
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I have been teaching English since 1986. I have never met any students who could understand or speak English after just 150 classes. After just 150 classes I took part in a one-week World Congress in China, where Esperanto was used by 2,031 people to speak about nearly everything.
Posted by Anna Maria Dall'Olio on 01/08/2009 @ 05:49AM PST
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I fully endorse this project. My first foreign language was Esperanto and I can attest to its merits for helping you learn other languages and not only foreign languages but after some learning of Esperanto you begin to understand even your own mother tongue better. It happened to me just like that.
Posted by José A Schiavinati on 01/08/2009 @ 05:50AM PST
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